[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Chakilam Venkatesh - Controversy???

[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 11:10 PM Vikram Jagannathan <vikkyjagan at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaskaram Raghav ji,
>
>
> Indeed
>>
>> 1. SB *-* māyā = NB ✅ as per advaita
>> (Negation of the upādhis lands us on NB)
>>
>> But once NB is arrived at by apavāda,
>>
>> 2. NB *+* māyā = SB ❌ absurd
>> (NB being non-dual cannot be part of any *transaction* like addition or
>> even superimposition because there is no other entity other than NB. All
>> talk of superimposition is at the earlier stage alone.)
>>
>> Kindly feel free to alter if I did not capture your intended meaning.
>>
>
>
> Indeed so. Minor clarification - the two representative equations under
> discussion are *NB + maya = SB* and *SB = maya + NB*. When it comes to
> deep dialectics, the former is incoherent; the latter is methodologically
> sound. This distinction is foundational for the correct understanding of
> Advaita Siddhanta (AS). *For general conversation / understanding, the
> distinction can be overlooked and they can be considered as synonymous.*
>
> Before going into the details, a quick callout - as you have mentioned SB
> - maya = NB is valid from AS perspective, as it does mean that negating the
> maya upadhi from SB lands on NB. However, from a sadhana perspective this
> is inaccurate as it is futile attempting to negate maya from SB (an entity
> perceived as distinct from us) prior to us overcoming our own ignorance.
>
> *Detailed clarification:*
> NB + maya = SB (equivalently, NB + avidya = “me/I”) assumes that there is
> some distinct entity NB that somehow associates with a mysterious
> maya/avidya and thereby “becomes” a distinct SB. On that framing, AS is
> depicted as removing/transcending maya, so thatwhat is now perceived by me
> as SB will then be perceived as NB and somehow I will be merged with NB.
> Effectively, I will be destroyed and all that would remain is the NB entity
> alone. Unsurprisingly, a system cast this way invites serious objections;
> Swami Ramanujacharya, Swami Vedanta Desikan and Swami Vyasatirtha have
> pioneered in a deep threadbare analysis of such a system and identified its
> various flaws / inconsistencies.
>

A program on the Saptavidha Anupapatti on the Avidya of Advaita - Tirupati

https://www.youtube.com/live/z9iNl-iXzZo?feature=share

The above video contains the following:

1. A brief description by Vidwan Sri K.E.Devanathan of the Saptavidha
anupapatti on the Avidya of Advaita raised by Sri Ramanuja in the
Sribhashyam

2. The 'defence' by the Advaita side by replying to each of the
anupapatti-s by MM Sri Mani Dravid Sastrigal
3. A summing up of the above by noted scholar Vidwan Rajaram Shukla of
Varanasi
4. A short discourse on the shastra adhyayana method by the pontiff of the
Kanchi Kamakoti maTha HH Sri Vijayendra Saraswati Swaminah.

All the above are in Sanskrit medium.  There is a brief pause during item
no.2 above owing to the arrival of the Kanchi Acharya to the venue. After
the pause the talk resumes.

The entire video is a great experience in the nuances of Vedanta shastra
and nyaya.

warm regards
subbu




>
> Advaita’s actual starting point is SB = maya + NB (equivalently, “me/I” =
> avidya + NB). What is now taken as SB is an adhyasa - a superimposition -
> of maya/avidya upon NB. The fact that adhyasa is in operation in my
> day-to-day experience is an undeniable fact. I, due to my current
> ignorance, superimpose maya on NB to perceive as SB. Classical Advaita
> describes SB as “maya-avachinna chaitanya”. This is pedagogically sound
> because teaching begins from the vyavaharika (everyday / current
> experience) standpoint, within which maya/avidya operates, and then unfolds
> the Paramarthika (ultimate) Truth - Reality. Understanding the concept of
> adhyasa is of paramount importance, and hence Swami Shankaracharya starts
> the Brahma-sutra-Bhashya with the Adhyasa-bhashya.
>
> *General comments on the importance & relevance of this distinction:*
> The persistent underestimation of adhyasa, by non-Advaitins, explains why
> some question the relevance of the Adhyasa-bhashya or bypass it while
> claiming to teach an “Advaita view” of the Gita or Upanishads. Some of
> them, in an attempt to display a reconciliatory tone, patronize
> adhyasa-bhashya being addressed towards Buddhists and other non-Vaidikas.
> More on this here -
> https://archive.org/details/adhyasa-bhashya-reflections-on-scope-and-relevance
>
> Many non-Advaitin presentations of the Advaita purvapaksha start from the
> perspective of NB and treat SB as really distinct from NB. From there arise
> questions such as “Where is maya in NB?”, “How can NB be associated with
> maya?”, and “How can such an association be overcome?” These questions are
> genuinely valid only if one first posits a real association in NB itself.
> Advaita does not. The association exists solely from the standpoint of
> maya/avidya - within the vyavaharika perspective. When maya/avidya is
> sublated, that projected association collapses with it. Hence Swami
> Sankaracharya, for every question on the locus of avidya/maya, almost
> always points the question back to the questioner.
>
> Without this foundational clarity, Advaita can appear inconsistent or
> “intellectually unsound”. The issue, however, lies in the initial
> misframing, not in Advaita Siddhanta.
>
> The famous saptavidha-anupapatti has force only if one begins with NB +
> maya = SB. From the proper pedagogical starting point - SB = maya + NB -
> those objections can be clarified and rendered invalid in its entirety.
> Now, this statement does not trivialize the depth of the critique or the
> care needed in response; it simply identifies the core of the clarification.
>
> In sum: Start with NB + maya = SB, and the criticisms seem apt. Start
> where Advaita actually begins - SB = maya + NB - and they lose their
> footing.
>
> A final, respectful note: Advaita Siddhanta equips one to overcome one's
> own ignorance, if and when they are earnest to overcome their ignorance.
> For many, who are quite content with their ignorance, AS is perhaps not yet
> the right sadhana for them. Preparatory disciplines such as chitta-shuddhi
> (mental-purification) and chitta-ekagrata (focused steadiness of mind) are
> appropriate steps (through karma, bhakthi and raja yoga) before engaging
> fully with AS.
>
> prostrations,
> Vikram
>
>
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