[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: avidyA is adhyasta (superimposed) in AtmA

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Raghav ji,

This section of the Gita bhashya, 13.2 is very interesting.  It explicitly
denies that the avidyA doSha is that present in / of the Atman and reasons
asserting that it is of the antaHkaraNam:  The reasoning is:  It is
observed/experienced (dRshya) and it is removed when vidyA arises.  Analogy
of eye defect being cured by remedial treatment of the organ eye and not of
the jiva who only uses the eye.

अत्र आह — एवं तर्हि ज्ञातृधर्मः अविद्या । न ; करणे चक्षुषि
तैमिरिकत्वादिदोषोपलब्धेः । *यत्तु मन्यसे — ज्ञातृधर्मः अविद्या, तदेव च
अविद्याधर्मवत्त्वं क्षेत्रज्ञस्य संसारित्वम् ; तत्र यदुक्तम् ‘ईश्वर एव
क्षेत्रज्ञः, न संसारी’ इत्येतत् अयुक्तमिति — तत् न ; यथा करणे चक्षुषि
विपरीतग्राहकादिदोषस्य दर्शनात् । न विपरीतादिग्रहणं तन्निमित्तं
वा  तैमिरिकत्वादिदोषः ग्रहीतुः, चक्षुषः संस्कारेण तिमिरे अपनीते ग्रहीतुः
अदर्शनात् न ग्रहीतुर्धर्मः यथा ; तथा सर्वत्रैव
अग्रहणविपरीतसंशयप्रत्ययास्तन्निमित्ताः करणस्यैव कस्यचित् भवितुमर्हन्ति, न
ज्ञातुः क्षेत्रज्ञस्य । संवेद्यत्वाच्च तेषां प्रदीपप्रकाशवत् न
ज्ञातृधर्मत्वम् — **संवेद्यत्वादेव स्वात्मव्यतिरिक्तसंवेद्यत्वम् *;
*सर्वकरणवियोगे
च कैवल्ये सर्ववादिभिः अविद्यादिदोषवत्त्वानभ्युपगमात् । *आत्मनः यदि
क्षेत्रज्ञस्य अग्न्युष्णवत् स्वः धर्मः, ततः न कदाचिदपि तेन वियोगः स्यात् ।
अविक्रियस्य च व्योमवत् सर्वगतस्य अमूर्तस्य आत्मनः केनचित्
संयोगवियोगानुपपत्तेः, सिद्धं क्षेत्रज्ञस्य नित्यमेव ईश्वरत्वम् ;
‘अनादित्वान्निर्गुणत्वात्’
(भ. गी. १३ । ३१)
<https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita/devanagari?page=13&id=BG_C13_V31&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D>
इत्यादीश्वरवचनाच्च
॥

regards
subbu

On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 10:59 PM 'Raghav Kumar' via advaitin <
advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your lucid replies, Sudhanshu ji.
>
> अनात्मनश्चाज्ञानप्रसूतत्त्वात् from NS
> is definitely not acceptable to SSSS.
>
> Not sure how SSSS still accepts Sureshvaracharya. Unless there is the
> usual text torturing by SSSS that, what is meant is not that the
> dRshyaprapancha is ajnAna-prasUta but rather, "to see the jagat is separate
> or independent of its adhiSThAnam" - that alone is due to jnAnAbhAva !!!
>
> But if jagat is ajnAna-prasUtaM is accepted by SSSS and co., then that
> would ipso facto endorse ajnAna as it's upAdana-kAraNam too which is
> anathema for them.
>
> Lastly, if ajnAna is merely antaHkaraNa doSha, then karma would have been
> enough to rectify karaNa doShas. Cataract, diplopia etc are corrected by
> surgical interventions (types of karma) not by cognitive interventions (ie
> jnAna-prApti).
>
> Regarding the tai.bh. reference that vivekAvivekau antaHkaraNasthau, no
> doubt NS and later texts explain that as referring to the only to the
> manifestation or expression of ajnAna and it's knowledge/anubhava being
> mediated by the mind.
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer
> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=NativePlacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_EmailSignatureGrowth_YahooMail:Search,Organize,Conquer&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000945&af_sub5=OrganizeConquer__Static_>
>
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 at 4:25 pm, Sudhanshu Shekhar
> <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bhaskar prabhu ji.
>
>  From the frame of reference of Brahman, there is perception of avidyA.
>
>
>
>    - From the frame of reference of brahman there is NO avidyA to any
>    one, that is what bhAshyakAra explaining, now this is getting really
>    funny!!
>
> As stated earlier:
>
> Typographical error in 3rd para:
>
> //From the frame of reference of Brahman, there is perception of avidyA.
> So the question "whose avidyA", becomes meaningful//
>
> *From the frame of reference of *avidyA**, there is perception of avidyA.
> So the question "whose avidyA", becomes meaningful.
>
>  Ø     But I am sorry, I cannot give this lenience to you to misrepresent
> Sri SSS at your comforts, you please stick to your vyAkhyAna school don’t
> try to find shelter in Sri SSS’s works.
>
>
> Sir, I showed SSSS ji's excerpt to show that you contradict SSSS ji. That
> is all. I have no interest in finding "shelter" in SSSS ji's works which
> are devoid of logic and are contradictory to bhAshya, which has been
> demonstrated many a times. If you think that somehow you are in alignment
> with SSSS ji in holding that Brahman is not ajnAna-Ashraya, then carry on
> with that notion.
>
> The sum and substance of your view is: SSSS ji does not hold Brahman as
> Ashraya of avidyA. Neither from Brahman-drishTi. Nor from avidyA-drishTi.
> If so, then obviously SSSS ji contradicts bhAshya and vArtika.
>
> //Ø     Yes, it is jeeva’s ( who is sentient) karaNa that is having the
> avidyA, well established in adhyAsa bhAshya by giving workaday examples.
> It is called anubhava sammata yukti to determine the avidyA/adhyAsa.//
>
> JIva's karaNa, being anAtmA, cannot be Ashraya of avidyA. This is
> eighth-standard stuff explained by Naishkarmya Siddhi -
> तत्रानात्मनस्तावन्नाज्ञानेनाभिसंबन्धः । तस्य हि स्वरूपमेवाज्ञानं न हि
> स्वतोऽज्ञानस्याज्ञानं घटते । संभवदप्यज्ञानस्वभावेऽज्ञानं कमतिशयं जनयेत् । न
> च तत्र ज्ञानप्राप्तिरस्ति येन तत्प्रतिषेधात्मकमज्ञानं स्यात् ।
> *अनात्मनश्चाज्ञानप्रसूतत्त्वात्* ।
>
> One who has understood this from NS can never say that jIva's karaNa,
> which is ajnAna-prasUta, has ajnAna-Ashrayatva.
>
> //Ø     Sorry again out of context explanation.  See 3-8 concluding
> remarks by Sri SSS.  You will come to know how you are misrepresenting Sri
> SSS observations here.//
>
> Sir ji. I have checked whatever he has to say. It would be better if you
> reproduce that.
>
> //Ø     avidyA explained to get rid of it not to give undue importance to
> it and taking it to the brahman and keeping it within brahman.  When it is
> said even kshetrajna is not the custodian and it is the problem of karaNa
> ‘karaNasyaiva’, I don’t know how this erroneous conclusion of brahmAshrita
> avidyA be justified.//
>
> You apply mind over it.
>
> //Ø     And if you ask this nonsense question the answer is already given
> by bhAshyakAra that it is YOU  who is asking this question having avidyA
> and concludes if you realize you are brahman there is no avidyA to
> anyone..so brahmAshrita avidyA needs to be understood from this point of
> view…not the way you concluded the NS, vArtika etc.//
>
> Sir, when BhAshyakAra says - कस्य पुनरयम् अप्रबोध इति चेत् , यस्त्वं
> पृच्छसि तस्य ते, इति वदामः । - here AchArya means --* चिन्मात्रस्य तव एव
> अज्ञान-आश्रयत्वम्*. AchArya answers by hinting to the swarUpa of
> questioner, seen from the avidyA-drishTi. It does  not imply that AchArya
> is saying that jIva has avidyA or jIva-karaNa has avidyA. Something that is
> ajNAna-prayukta cannot be Ashraya of ajnAna.
>
> You can check RatnaprabhA on BSB 4.1.3.
>
> In sum and substance: Brahman is the Ashraya and vishaya of avidyA. This
> ajnAna-Ashrayatva and ajnAna-vishayatva are ajnAna-kalpita. From the frame
> of reference of Brahman, there is no existence/perception of ajnAna. Hence,
> the question of ajnAna-Ashrayatva becomes meaningless from
> Brahman-frame-of-reference. From the avidyA-frame-of-reference, when
> avidyA's perception is admitted, the question is meaningful and
> pArisheshyAt, only Brahman can be the Ashraya and vidhaya of avidyA.
>
> anAtmA is ajnAna-prasUta. Hence, it can neither be Ashraya or vishaya of
> ajnAna.
>
> Regards.
> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "advaitin" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAH9%3D%2BBCj9%3Dp1WkzRUz8ajpvgJrCM5GwzMVKxeeeBwp0w%2BjVbQA%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAH9%3D%2BBCj9%3Dp1WkzRUz8ajpvgJrCM5GwzMVKxeeeBwp0w%2BjVbQA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "advaitin" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/1028583471.10843415.1736270961215%40mail.yahoo.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/1028583471.10843415.1736270961215%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>