[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: [advaitin] What is the glue that binds Brahman and Maya together?

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Sri Ram Chandran Ji.

Reg  // Gold and Golden Ring Analogy

Gold has an independent existence and doesn’t depend on the ring to exist.
if Gold is removed then ring doesn’t exist.  Gold is the substratum within
the Golden ring //,

And

//  Sadaji’s analysis provides more details on the analogy of Gold and
golden ring //.

There have been several discussions earlier on the topic of Clay-Pot and
Gold-Ring illustrations in which myself and Sri Sadananda Ji also
participated. The main issue being whether they represent परिणाम (pariNAma)
or *विवर्त** (*vivarta) modiications. Myself and Sri Sadananda Ji had
opposite views. Ultimately we decided to agree to disagree.

Since then, the website Advaitasharada also covered a rare manuscript, a
vyAkhyAna on PanchapAdika titled वक्तव्यकाशिका (vaktavyakAshikA) by Sri
उत्तमज्ञयति (Uttamaj~nayati). He is stated to be a disciple of the 5th
Acharya of Sringeri Peetham,  nanottamacharya (910-954 AD). The topic we
were concerned with finds an explicit mention in this text. Clay-Pot
illustration is covered instead of Gold-Ring illustration. But the
reasoning holds good in respect of both.

 Now that you have raised this topic again, I thought it may be appropriate
to present that elaboration here, for whatever it is worth. It is not my
intention to open up the whole issue again.

In respect of the relationship between Brahman and Jagat, PanchapAdika
observes as below

//  अतो यदवष्टम्भो विश्वो विवर्तते प्रपञ्चः, तदेव मूलकारणं ब्रह्मेति
सूत्रार्थः ॥ //

//  ato yadavaShTambho vishvo vivartate prapa~nchaH, tadeva mUlakAraNaM
brahmeti sUtrArthaH || //

Translation  //  Thus, Resting upon what Jagat (Prapancha) transfigures
(vivarta), That Root Cause is Brahman, is the meaning of the sUtra //.

This is elaborated in the vyAkhyAna  वक्तव्यकाशिका (vaktavyakAshikA) as
under.

//  ब्रह्मैव जगदाकारेण परिणमते मृदिव घटाकारेणेति शङ्कां व्यावर्तयति -

*विवर्तत* *इति* *।** //*

*//  brahmaiva jagadAkAreNa pariNamate mRRidiva ghaTAkAreNeti sha~NkAM
vyAvartayati - vivartata iti | //*

*Translation  // *By the word *विवर्तत** (vivartata) *, the doubt, that
Brahman itself is transformed (परिणाम pariNAma) into the form of Jagat
 similar to Clay turning into the form of Pot, is dispelled //.

This confirms two understandings. One, Clay-Pot relationship is one of
परिणाम (pariNAma) and not *विवर्त** (*vivarta). And second, transformation
of Brahman into Jagat is not one of परिणाम (pariNAma) but is one of *विवर्त**
(*vivarta).

The vyAkhyAna continues..

//  एकस्य सत्वादितितत्त्वादप्रच्युतस्य
पूर्वरूपविपरीतासत्यानेकरूपापत्तिर्विवर्तः । एकस्य पूर्वरूपपरित्यागेन
सत्यरूपान्तरापत्तिः परिणाम इति विभागो द्रष्टव्यः ।  //

//  ekasya satvAdititattvAdaprachyutasya
pUrvarUpaviparItAsatyAnekarUpApattirvivartaH | ekasya pUrvarUpaparityAgena
satyarUpAntarApattiH pariNAma iti vibhAgo draShTavyaH | //

Translation  //  Without deviating from the Principle (Axiom)  of One Truth
(Reality), changing into several false forms different from the  previous
Form (Truth)  is termed र्विवर्त (vivarta). Renouncing the single former
true form and transforming into different true forms is termed pariNAma.
This is the distinction //.

Regards

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 6:53 PM Ram Chandran <ramvchandran at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Namaskar dear Bhaskar Prabhuji:
>
> I am glad to see you question and here is my brief answer. Please feel
> free to correct me if I am wrong.
>
> Gold and Golden Ring Analogy
>
> Gold has an independent existence and doesn’t depend on the ring to exist.
> if Gold is removed then ring doesn’t exist.  Gold is the substratum within
> the Golden ring.
>
> In the chair and leg analogy, Chair existence depends on the existence of
> legs.  With no legs, the chair is no more chair but it becomes a plain
> board!  The leg can exist without any chair and we sometime use the legs
> from the broken chair to support something else! Chair can’t be called a
> substratum for leg!
>
> As a matter of fact Wood and Chair is a good analogy and parallel to Gold
> and Golden ring!
>
> Sadaji’s analysis provides more details on the analogy of Gold and golden
> ring.
>
> *Critical analysis of vedAnta paribhAShA Part XXXXIII*
>
> https://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/knowledge/transformation.htm
>
>
>
> With my warm regards,
>
> Ram Chandran
> On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:45:30 PM UTC-4 Bhaskar YR wrote:
>
>> praNAms Sri Ramachandran prabhuji
>>
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts and they are valuable and useful.  I am
>> glad to see more active participation.  This subject is quite important and
>> I hope to see more to participate and share their views.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ø     Since you called for more participation with regard to analogies,
>> I am just curious to know what makes you and Sri Sada prabhuji to object
>> the analogy of Chair and chair leg by Sri Putran prabhuji??  Why do you
>> think it is an inappropriate analogy to establish Advaita ??
>>
>>
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>
>> bhaskar
>>
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