[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Venkataraghavan ji,

It is not only about redoing Vedanta Paribhasha. It is in Siddhant Bindu
also. Our entire perception theory is based on it. Antahkaran vritti,
avidya-vritti (for non-existent objects getting perceived). It will be very
difficult.

I wanted a clarification. Is sound and shabda same?

Regards.

On Tue, 11 May 2021, 03:44 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Having thought about it, this wouldn't work for the reason that the mind
> cannot be expected to go to the object which had ceased to exist millions
> of years ago.
>
> Therefore, it would appear that the simpler explanation is to say that the
> mind + sense organs do not travel to the object at all. They must be, as
> science says, reacting to light and sound presented to them at the location
> of the subject.
>
> One will have to redo the vedAnta paribhASha. Perhaps some enterprising
> soul can make the attempt!
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Mon, 10 May 2021, 22:40 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes. However, the same is true for light as well - the object (a distant
>> galaxy) may no longer exist by the time the mind reaches it. I think the
>> answer in either case is that one would not see / hear the object if that
>> was the case.
>>
>> However, science tells us that we continue receiving the light from dead
>> stars and galaxies even after they have ceased to exist. To account for it
>> one could postulate thus:
>>
>> There are two journeys for the vRtti that are made - from the subject to
>> the object and back. So one could still argue that it is possible under the
>> vedAntic system for the object to be seen even after it is gone, provided
>> that the onward journey (from the subject to object) had been completed
>> before the object had ceased to exist.
>>
>> Therefore, operating under the spirit of parsimony (and harmony with
>> science), one could postulate that the return of the mind + indriyam from
>> the object to the subject exactly mirrors the mechanism postulated by
>> science - however, prior to that, there is an uncognised movement of the
>> mind + indriyam to the object.
>>
>> How that happens varies for chakshu and the shrotram. For chakshu, there
>> is a spatial alignment anticipated - the eyes have to be directed towards
>> the object. When that happens, the mental vRtti travels towards from the
>> subject to the object. However, no such spatial alignment is expected in
>> the case of the shortram. It behaves more akin to a radio antenna - it has
>> a range that it spans, and anything within that range is heard, even when
>> the hearer is not anticipating the sound. So, one could postulate that the
>> mind + ears automatically extend outwards (ie they span an auditory spatial
>> range outwards, and any sound within that spatial range is heard, without
>> the exercise of will on part of the hearer or the directing of the ears
>> towards a sound).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 9:20 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> If we postulate that mind+shrotra reach subsequent to the mind+chakshu --
>>> then by that time vishaya may no longer be there.
>>>
>>> Two clouds collide, light is produced and sound is produced
>>> simultaneously.
>>> By the time shrotra reaches there, there is no sound at vishaya desha. So
>>> what will it perceive. And it is our experience that we perceive sound.
>>> And
>>> also we reject शब्दान्तर उत्पत्ति due to गौरव दोष.
>>>
>>> I think we need to delve into the meaning of shabda. It is the shabda
>>> which
>>> is the vishaya of shrotra. Is shabda same as sound which requires a
>>> medium
>>> to propagate. If we ring a school bell in outer space, we cannot hear
>>> sound. But does it mean there is no shabda generated ?
>>>
>>> Can shabda stay even when there is no audible sound.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 1:16 am Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > The upapatti is that science has demonstrated that the svabhAva of
>>> light is
>>> > to travel at 300,000 km/s and sound is to travel at 340 m/s.
>>> >
>>> > That being so, one could postulate that the svabhAva of mind +
>>> shrotram is
>>> > to travel at 340 m/s vs 300,000 km/s for the mind + chakshu.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Venkatraghavan
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 10 May 2021, 06:36 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > While talking to Sri Mani Dravid Sastrigal about the question, he
>>> was of
>>> > > the opinion that the mind with the shrotrendriyam reaches the vishaya
>>> > desha
>>> > > 'after' the m + c indirya.  There is no upapatti as such to account
>>> for
>>> > the
>>> > > relatively slow movement of the m + s.
>>> > >
>>> > > We may have to say that such is their 'svabhava'.
>>> 'दृष्टानुरोधकल्पना'.
>>> > >
>>> > > regards
>>> > > subbu
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
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