[Advaita-l] Only a Vedantin can express these words of wisdom

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Gopal ji
Thanks for pointing out the need to differentiate between dvaita (proper
noun) from (theistic) dualism (common noun,) - the former are peaceful
while some of the latter are more proactive in imposing their beliefs
violently on others - the cause of religiously inspired violence in the
world.

The pacifism of Indian
dvaita practitioners is quite obvious, even the staunchest of whom,
restrict their sparring to an intellectual level - at worst, some
name-calling and bad-mouthing of opponents is par for the course. It is as
if even the most dogmatic followers of various Indian dualistic worship
traditions feel,
 "it is really Krishna's call (or Shakti's call - the Bengali Shaakta
Vaishnava rivalry comes to mind)  - to deal out punishment to those who
don't worship him/her and instead worship some other 'demigod' etc. It's no
doubt a blameworthy thing to worship demigods as Supreme, but it's none of
my business to forcefully or violently impose my way on others (although i
hold that my way of worship is the best and only correct way based on the
Vedas) on others. At best i should debate with the rascals and call their
bluff intellectually..haah". - this paper tiger intellectual violence is
the maximum limit of religious conflict seen in India until recently.


I don't know of any social or political problems created by even
passionately theistic Indian dualism followers of various hues (both
vaishnava and shaiva or shakta) for followers of other Indian dvaita
adherents or advaitins.(Except for the freakish Kuresha incident of
doubtful authenticity, claimed by the vishishtadvaitins, wherein a
fanatical shaiva having a suitably awkward name is said to have violently
victimized some Vaishnavas.) This peaceful history of Indian dualistic
traditions is in sharp contrast to the non-Indian historical religions
waging religious war killing millions of innocents.

Can we conclude from the Indian experience of atleast a thousand years
that, passionate and insistent adherence to a particular name and form for
worship (and even to the point of holding that followers of other forms of
worship will be sent off to naraka/hell and will be punished), by itself
does not necessarily lead to any social and political violence?

Besides the peaceful vedic vaiShnava and shaaktas etc., even the semi-Vedic
Sikhs and non-Vedic Buddhists and Jainas show similar socially and
politically peaceful traits over several 1000 years over countries all over
Asia. In Indonesia and South East Asia, Vaidika and Buddhist traditions
peacefully co-existed for over 1000 years. A common trait of all the
so-called 'Dharma' traditions? So this cannot be attributed to any recent
modern 'enlightened' attitude or even to Vedic origin.

The only reason I can think of for religious violence under the umbrella of
Islam and Christianity is to the specific theological injunctions (that
gained traction and were amplified) that killing non-believers is
meritorious (ghazi concept in Islam), looking at practitioners of other
religion as "Satan-worshippers" rather than merely innocent worshippers who
don't know better (this 'Satanization' of temple or nature worship has been
in the past a license to convert or kill, as in South America, Africa, Goa
etc).

Because bad-mouthing each other due to sectarian differences is common to
both the peaceful Dvaita traditions and the violent historical religions.
So it does not have any actionable component.

Om
Raghav









On Sun, 12 Jan, 2020, 10:47 PM Gopal via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Shri Murthy,
>
> Namaskara. You have stated it well. That gave actual relief...
>
>  The subtility in Mahaswami's vachana about passionate adherence to the
> duality of name and form (a generic noun) as a progenitor of violence
> appears to be lost when the word Dvaita (a proper noun) is used.  In
> general, one can see that passionate adherence of anything could be equally
> dogmatic and this gives rise to conflicts and quarrels... this is true even
> in the realms of religion and science.
>
> As a disclaimer, on a lighter vein, as someone born in dvaita sampradaya, I
> have not seen violent tendency against people of advaita or vishistadvaita
> sampradayas amongst my kith, kin and tribal strangers all these decades...
> Most probably those aasura sampatthi dvaitins and vishistaadvaitins
> (paraphrasing Shri Krishna) have also acquired ability to be invisible...
>
> ..gopal gopinath
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 1:22 AM Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste
> >
> > Yes Dvaita is fanatic but they are also followers of Dharma and Karmas
> like
> > Advaitis. There are small differences only  in Karmas like Upanayana,
> > Sandhyavandana and so on between Advaitis, Dvaitis and Visistadvaitis.
> They
> > are also vegetarians. They are fanatic at thought level but in conduct
> they
> > are not violent like Mlecchas.
> >
> > A person following Sanatana Dharma and performing the Karmas of Dharma
> > cannot be violent and bloodthirsty.
> >
> > This is the reason for why they cannot be violent like Islam and
> > Christians.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 9:14 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Subbu ji
> > >
> > > That is indeed well-put. Advaita Vedanta fosters accommodating all
> human
> > > beings, even while objectively recognising the limitations in various
> > > theologies and belief systems.
> > >
> > > What is the reason for the following?
> > >
> > > The Indian dualism (like Sri Madhva's theology) is no less fanatical
> and
> > > theologically obsessed as non-Indian origin dualistic systems like
> Islam
> > > and Christianity. Yet the Indian dvaita systems (thankfully) do not
> have
> > a
> > > bloody record of violence and persecution of fellow human beings purely
> > due
> > > to their religious beliefs, the way bloodthirsty jihads and crusades
> have
> > > been the norm in Islam and Christianity? What is the cause of this
> almost
> > > bovine pacifism of Indian dualism in contrast to the carnivorous
> appetite
> > > of the predatory religions - although both these types are
> intellectually
> > > strongly sectarian?
> > >
> > > Om
> > > Raghav
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Jan, 2020, 8:17 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "All religious conflicts and quarrels arise because a devotee is
> unable
> > > to
> > > > disassociate his conception of God from a particular name and form."
> > > >
> > > > - Jagadguru Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Mahaswamigal
> > > >
> > > > (Source: Thought of the Day - Sringeri Vidya Bharati Foundation, USA)
> > > >
> > > > The wisdom in the above message encapsulates the entire scriptural
> lore
> > > of
> > > > the Vaidika Sanatana Dharma.  None other than a Vedantin can grasp
> this
> > > and
> > > > express it in such a way. Theological/sectarian schools can never aim
> > to
> > > > reach these sublime heights of the Vedantin.  Their lot is destined
> to
> > > > wallow in bigotry. We see only Advaita Acharyas express such thoughts
> > > that
> > > > can never be comprehended by those who do not belong to the path of
> the
> > > > Vedanta.
> > > >
> > > > Om Tat Sat
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> >
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > -Venkatesh
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