[Advaita-l] Fwd: There's No God. No One Directs Our Fate: StephenHawking In His Last Book

[Swati Gupta]

I don’t think Stephen Hawking deserves to be called a panDitamUrKA.  Unless they can verify our “beliefs” we cant call them idiots.  Atheists mock believers and believers look down on atheists.  Both should refrain from doing that.

I am also not sure if we need to psychoanalyze Hawking to explain why he is Atheist.  There are far too many scientists and nonscientists who have everything in life but are atheists.  
There is a far simpler explanation:  We are conditioned to believe in “unverifiable” ideas – atheists aren’t.

We propound theory of karma.  Scientists would like to design an experiment to test theory of Karma and establish a causal link between action & consequence.  Can we help them do that?  No, we cannot because we say our prarabdha is mostly set. Consequences of our current karmas can only be seen after death. Convenient.

Can we explain why the world was created.  “Lokavattu lilakaivalyam” doesn’t cut it.  We cant explain why a 
compassionate god designed this world in which an animal has to eat another animal to survive?  We cant even watch it on TV when a tiger hunts a deer but it is a sport to a ‘karunamaya’ god?.  What would we call a man/woman, to whom others’ suffering is a sport?. 

We talk about reciting mantras as one path for salvation (&also kamya prayogas).  Can we help scientists do a control group study of efficacy of recitation of mantras.  No. We cant.  Because we say Mantras working is subject to unverifiable karma and faith.  Also, Just imagine how it sounds to a non-believer that one has to recite gods name millions of times to make him/her happy.  Or sing stotras in god’s praise.    

I am for respecting any scientist (atheist or otherwise) who is helping lessen the suffering of humanity – a suffering created by our “Dayaalu Ishvara”.


From: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 2:25 AM
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Cc: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: There's No God. No One Directs Our Fate: StephenHawking In His Last Book

Namaste Gopal ji
You articulated an empathetic and sensitive stand on Hawkings' passionate
atheism and thank you for the same.

What I write below is not to disagree but to share a couple of ideas taught
by some Gurus I had studied with.

Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswati ji used to say that most of these
scientists who proclaim their atheism have strong objections to an extra
cosmic creator "God" and much less objection if not a neutral stance with
respect to the idea of Ishvara who is both the maker and at the same time
the material. (ishvarasya abhinna-nimitto-pAdAna-kAraNatvam).

Swamiji would also say that many scientists pose the wrong question viz.,
"Does God exist?" - they assume the word God is a well-known entity like an
apple or a table. The question "does God exist" itself is a loaded one with
a lot of implicit baggage and so it only polarizes people . The question
does not improve understanding. Even Nobel prize winners are often not
smart enough to pose the right question viz., "What is the meaning of the
word "God"?"


Also scientists like Hawking are staunch "believers" in the non-existence
of "God" (and as it now turns out, he held on to his deep "faith" in his
beliefs till his last breath). Many believers of the various religions of
the world are similarly disposed with respect to their own beliefs.

One last point which was stated on several occasions by Sri Swami
Ranganathananda ji a former President of the Ramakrishna Mission, was that
a person successful in his own particular field like physics or chemistry
or sports may not have the slightest clue when it comes to deep
philosophical questions. Their opinions on questions beyond their
particular field of excellence have no particular value. If a great
cricketer like Sachin Tendulkar makes pronouncements about God etc., such
statements may gain publicity and traction on account of their personal
fame but are of no real significance.


(These words of Swamijis are my recollection of their words and not a
verbatim presentation of what they said.)

One other important point made by you is that given the way the cards of
fate were dealt to Hawking which made him suffer from a motor neuron
disease, it's understandable that he would be loathe to admit the existence
of either a benevolent creator or even one who dispenses retributive
justice.

This is a much larger problem faced by many people who perceive that they
have been dealt a raw deal in life. They view the law of karma to be a
ridiculous explanation of the causes of what they are going through.

What would be the best constructive response to the following view - "i
can't believe in the law of karma. A view such as 'When a child is born
with a congenital defect or even some social disadvantage or being abused
as a child, it's the child's own karma which has fructified and there is no
one else to blame' -  is harsh and judgemental and blames the child for
what he is suffering for no known fault of his."

I generally say that if we ask what is the cause of a child's suffering .
We have to say "because...." . That's all the law of karma builds upon....

On
Raghav








On Fri 19 Oct, 2018, 9:37 PM Gopal via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dear Sri Subbuji, Murthyji,
>
> namaste. Thanks for the note and the link.
>
> It is not surprising that Dr. Hawkings wrote about God in his (final) book.
> He has been saying so for a pretty long time.
> Most of the 7+ billion people or a few dozen religions in the world would
> not have known him much, and even if they do, would not care for his words.
>
> But, he was a great scientist,  a human who lived a life that demonstrated
> a victorious struggle against what the destiny handed to him. Most other
> people would have yielded to that  'fate' but he had means, supporters,
> funds and mindset to
> fight and succeed until he could write the words "There is no God" in a
> book that ended up being his last...
>
> I beg to see this viewpoint from the man's shoes. For all his natural
> talent, he was struck with a debilitating illness when  he was in youthful
> days. The disease sucked the life out of his liveliness. He became a slave
> to machinery, manipulated
> to remain alive. By his sheer will power (and support of funds and other
> kinds) he mastered the use of the many modern medical machinery (real and
> figurative) to bring out the outputs of his talent, studies, thinking and
> mathematical calculations.
> He made tremendous discoveries in modern higher order physics in spite of
> these medical difficulties.
>
> The question, personally i guess, he would have lived with, would have
> been:"why I am struck by this illness which only degrades my ability to do
> more and contribute to science more?".
> He might  not been alone. There are millions who are affected by visible,
> congenital (by birth) or inherited, malfunctioning of human body systems at
> all levels, that have brought most of them down from functioning physically
> as
> typical human beings. I am pointing to those cases where physical and
> physiological malfunctioning not fully limiting mental and intellectual
> faculties. In the case of Dr. Hawkings, he is one of those extraordinary
> examples. In many millions,
> I would imagine these 'not-their-responsibility' illnesses would be
> affecting their cerebral excellence and ability to enjoy life's small
> joys...
>
> I am speculating on this with high confidence:  In the religion(s), Dr.
> Hawkings would have been mainly exposed to, there is not much explanation
> to be offered beyond certain "unseen intent of God". It is not surprising
> that he would have said "there is no God" in print because the discourses
> of "God" he would have known personally  neither explained why he was
> afflicted nor provided any solace or longevity. Modern medicine did. And he
> appears to have a strong case to argue for what he felt and wrote about
> this unhelpful "God".
> ( I assume he did not attempt studying vedanta ...).
>
> Do you think hindu religion offers a better explanation? Does vedanta
> explain these millions of cases in a way? I am sure one would point to
> excellent thesis on karma and adhrushta factor in one's birth and death.
> How does the explanations "help" their day to day lives? When cognizant and
> intellectually active but physically limited patients struggle on a day to
> day basis to live at all and live meaningfully, is it surprising if there
> is a skepticism for 'theories of existence' of 'God' among them?  Maybe it
> takes  more to practice one's belief in God when he or she is suffering
> without an end. May be, it is better to respect their judgement whether to
> believe in such beliefs that do not deliver in their lives. Maybe it would
> help us to appreciate what we have and do not have, when we recognize that
> there are things in this 'God-made' world that would eventually snatch us
> away from our fundamental beliefs of Ishvara.  While I know I cannot equal
> Dr. Hawking's intellectual prowess, he could also be a test for me to look
> into how strong are my beliefs are and what makes them remain as they are.
>
> Rather than annoyed at his educated 'foolishness', I am awed at his
> self-made will.  In tirukkural, there is a  verse that goes:" when even the
> gods declare not-doable, a man's perseverance will yield the results:
> deivattaan aagaadu eninum...  Also, even while ending up reading his works
> that ended with a stamp  'There is no God',  one would find a lot of
> interesting  parallels between the ideas of cosmogeny in kaabbaala, some
> saiva agamas, advaitic vedanta, and his earlier works. We would all agre
> that Dr. Hawkings did  not develop his models to prove or disprove these
> religions beliefs but his thinking paralleled a few from another domain of
> scholarship : theology.  He could be considered a top-notch agnostic rishi
> for his perspectives on cosmic dynamics.  Let us respect him for what he
> was and not trash him for what he was not..
>
> my 2 cents,
> ..gopal
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:24 AM sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> >  Dear Sri Subramanian,    Stephen Hawking and his tribe are
> > panDitamUrKAs.    That is what I feel.
> > With respectful pranams,Sreenivasa Murthy
> >
> >     On Friday, 19 October, 2018, 11:37:34 AM IST, V Subrahmanian via
> > Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >  There's No God. No One Directs Our Fate: Stephen Hawking In His Last
> Book
> >
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/stephen-king-in-his-last-book-theres-no-god-no-one-directs-our-fate-1933745
> >
> > regards
> > subrahmanian.v
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