[Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
Kalyan
kalyan_kg at yahoo.com
Wed May 24 12:22:58 EDT 2017
//I have asked you why
you still want to associate yourself with us, no matter
which way you look at it.//
I have no interest in associating with you nor in replying to further posts from you.
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/24/17, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Venkata sriram P" <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 3:32 PM
Kalyan,
1. You are
not the first nor the only "not a traditional
advaitin" on this list. That is not an excuse for your
obnoxiousness here. In my experience, unlike you, most
"not traditional advaitins" are quite decent
people and pleasant to deal with.
2. You are the first "not
traditional advaitin" here, who has been so disruptive
in every discussion thread where you have participated. The
manner and content of your responses to various members,
including Anand Hudli, YR Bhaskar, Praveen Bhat, S
Venkataraghavan and V Subrahmanian among others, has always
been questionable at best, all through the last three
months. I watched and waited till this last week, before
pulling moderator rank on you, to tell you that your modus
operandi is not appreciated by anybody with whom you have
chosen to engage during this time.
3. Your behavior on this list is
completely contradictory to your stated purposed of wanting
"to understand how traditional advaitins are convinced
of the truth of the philosophy." The manner of your
engagement with "traditional advaitins" is
guaranteed to generate nothing but misunderstanding. In any
case, your introductory note conveniently left out that you
saw "unresolvable (sic) questions and
contradictions." If you had stated that up front, we
moderators would have asked you to clarify, prior to
subjecting 500+ members of this list to these unsavory
exchanges in public.
4. You are in no position to claim
that you have not personally attacked any member of this
forum. I gave you a mild warning about modulating your
online behavior and you launched into an attack on the
entire list in response.
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2017-May/045201.html
Through that one post, you
questioned the integrity of every single person who is on
this list. As a moderator, I'm merely doing my job. I
have had to drag it out of you, regarding your past history
as a member of this list from a different email ID. Hiding
who you are is operating in bad faith.I have asked you why
you still want to associate yourself with us, no matter
which way you look at it. Your answer to that part is still
pending.
5. Of course,
you can only expect "similar behavior" from our
side. And you are getting back exactly that, although it is
actually a lot milder than what you otherwise deserve.
Still, you reap as you sow.
Vidyasankar
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at
10:43 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
wrote:
//
You have not answered my straightforward question,
"what is your purpose for being on this list?"
//
I will answer this question if only to reduce your anger.
But before answering, let me make a small point. In my
introductory message itself I made it very clear that I am
not a traditional vedAntin. Refer below link -
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.
org/archives/advaita-l/2017- February/044615.html
So the moderators admitted me into the list, knowing fully
well that I am not a traditional advaitin.
Now to answer your question - I joined this list to
understand how traditional advaitins are convinced of the
truth of their philosophy, in the light of what I see as
unresolvable questions and contradictions in advaita.
Now I hope your question is answered. I have infact not
written any post here where I personally attacked any member
of this forum. I expect similar behavior from your side.
------------------------------ --------------
On Wed, 5/24/17, Vidyasankar
Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s
- Mahabharata
To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Venkata sriram P" <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>,
"A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 2:22 PM
That's
rich, Kalyan. If you think you are provoking me by
repeatedly bringing up my being a moderator here,
you're
not. You're merely proving that you're a
curmudgeon.
You have not
answered my straightforward question, "what is
your
purpose for being on this list?" Others, who are
not
moderators of this list, have asked you the same
question
and you have yet to answer that. You had better find a
way
to answer that and decide for yourself whether you want
to
contribute productively or if you simply want to shoot
and
scoot.
Vidyasankar
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at
9:39 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Calm
down. Just because you are the moderator you cannot
write
abusive messages. I have merely presented the facts
from
Shankara bhAshyas. I have not invented anything on my
own.
There is no need to get so angry. There is no need to
develop a visceral hatred for me.
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:44 PM,
Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
wrote:
Oh,
come off it. You know, sometimes it's better to
keep
quiet and be thought a fool than to say something and
remove
all doubt. It's a pity that you've been
repeatedly
choosing the latter option.
Once
again, what is your purpose in being on a list that is
dedicated to traditional advaita vedAnta if you have a
poor
opinion of everyone from Adi Sankara down? Just to
exhibit
some bravado daring the moderators to throw you
out?
Vidyasankar
On May 24, 2017 7:44 AM,
"Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
wrote:
//The
criticism of these other schools centers around the
fact
that none of them are independent means to moksha. The
same
Sankara also accepts whatever is right and good in
these
other schools, subject to agreement with the
aupanishada
teachings.//
Once
again, reality is different from the above. In BSB
2.2.32,
Shankara summarily dismisses the entire Bauddha school.
He
further says that either the Buddha is a man who makes
incoherent assertions or has hatred for all beings.
This,
despite the fact that Shankara himself acknowledges the
closeness of his school with that of the Buddhists in
his
Mandukya karika bhashya!
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:13 PM,
Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
wrote:
The
criticism of these other schools centers around the
fact
that none of them are independent means to moksha. The
same
Sankara also accepts whatever is right and good in
these
other schools, subject to agreement with the
aupanishada
teachings.
SrutyanusAra-ananusAra
vishaya-vivecanena sanmArge prajnA sangrahaNIyA, and
paramatam apratishiddham anumataM bhavati, he
says.
In contrast,
bhakti towards a particular form of ISvara is a key step
in
the jnAnamArga of advaita vedAnta, provided people
don't
get caught up in the ridiculous my God is better than
your
God attitude. Unfortunately, this is a trap that many
vaishNavas and Saivas find very difficult to
avoid.
Once again, rather than get caught
up in superficialities, please pay attention to the
details.
There is a huge amount of material in our own list
archives
as a starting point. That is, if one can put resentment
aside and read with an open mind.
Vidyasankar
On
May 24, 2017 4:49 AM, "Kalyan via Advaita-l"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org> wrote:
//Here lies the greatness of we
advaitins that we never criticise any path and take
everyone in our own stride and move on....//
Sri Venkata Sriram, Shankara has criticized mimamsa,
nyaya,
samkhya, yoga, vaiseshika, bauddha, jaina, pashupata,
pancaratra, carvaka philosophers in his commentaries. To
say
that advaitins do not criticize anybody is far removed
from
reality.
RegardsKalyan
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:28 PM, Venkata sriram
P
via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org> wrote:
Namaste,
////
Appayya Dikshitha probably has not studied the entire
Mahabharata.
In Shanti parvan, when Vishnu shows his Vishwaroopa to
Narada
///
Those who are making furore over the
मन्दत्व
of अप्पय दीक्षितः, why
don't
they raise
objections to the remark of वेदान्त
देशिकः when he makes a remark against
दक्षिणामुर्तिः
vide shloka no. 7 of his हयग्रीव
स्तोत्रं :
दाक्षिण्यरम्या
गिरिशस्य मूर्तिः
देवी
सरोजासन धर्मपत्नी ।
व्यासादयोऽपि
व्यपदेश्यवाचः
स्फुरन्ति सर्वे तव
शक्तिलेशैः ॥ ७॥
"the pretty south-faced Ishwara (dakshinamurti),
Devi
Saraswati and Bhagavan Badarayana -
all three draw their power of Knowledge from Lord
Hayagriva"
Granted that these compositions show one's devotion
to
personal deity but is it not blasphemous
to say that the Dakshinamurti who taught the essence of
vedanta to great brahmanishtaas thru
silence draws His knowledge thru Hayagriva. The
greatness
of dakshinamurti is stated in Bhagavata Purana
itself in 4th chapter. Having seated in
'mahAyOga'
rUpa 'vaTavrikSa', demonstrates the
'chinmudra' and dispels
the doubts to sages.
Now, should we advaitins conclude that Vedanta Desika
didn't study any shastras and was
ignorant of the dakshinamurti-tattva? Certainly
not.
Here lies the greatness of we advaitins
that we never criticise any path and take everyone in
our
own stride and move on....
Advaitins are broad-minded and that is why it has
become
more popular and
more acceptable today by great logicians and
philanthropists.
regs,
sriram
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