[Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata

[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 12:59 AM, Kalyan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> For all my statements, I provided a logical explanation. If they looked
> like personal attacks to you, I cant help it.


Of course, you can help it, Kalyan. If what you consider to be a logical
explanation does come across as being logical to others on this list, then
they wouldn't be trying to refute you. Convincing your fellow man that you
do indeed have a logical foundation supporting you is an art. It is such
one-liners from you that set the combative tone and become personal
attacks.

If you cannot find a better manner of communication, a method that steps
away from blanket assertions that you can't help it, do realize that your
respondents also "can't help it." The only person who is making things
personal here, while claiming that they aren't, is you. After all, you are
the one who already made a grandiose accusation that this list is a
coterie, so if people take your subsequent statements as being personal
attacks, they have good reason to think so.

I'm curious. You were introduced from this email ID as a new member, only
on Feb 26 2017. I just checked and confirmed that there are zero posts to
this list  from you, i.e. from this email ID, through all of 2016 and
January-February 2017.

Every one of the posts you have made in March, April and May of 2017
revolves around the question, whose is avidyA. When pointed to gItAbhAshya
13.2, you dismissed that with a one-liner, saying you don't see anything
there that resolves the question to your satisfaction. In another post, you
asked for explanations from list members with reference to advaita
AchAryas, not with their own thoughts. Yet you had already proved that a
reference to the writing of the premier advaita AchArya was not sufficient
for your liking.

All your responses and queries to various list members over these three
months have been unduly dismissive, aggressive and negatively structured.
Your introductory note mentioned that you had an interest in science,
philosophy and history. I've seen no contribution from you so far that
bears out your interest in science and history.

Obviously, most of the rest of us ignoramuses think that your questions are
being thrown out merely as rhetorical devices, and not as a genuine way of
seeking answers or leading to genuine intellectual discussions that can
lead to clarity. Over these three months, your predominant method of
interaction with long-standing list members has been confrontational. If
you do not intend your questions to be merely rhetorical, this ball is also
in your court, to take a different approach. If you want to have a genuine
discussion, convince those whom you are talking to, not by painting
yourself into a corner saying that you can't help it, but by indeed saying
and doing something to demonstrate that you will actually help it. Else,
all you are doing is indulging in your own confirmation biases.

Be that as it may, you have deduced, from just three months of being
involved with list discussions, from this email ID, that this list is a
coterie. I applaud your powers of deduction and at analyzing the behaviors
and motivations of people whom you haven't even met or interacted with in
any positive manner over that very short time period. Be aware that just as
you have judged other list members over the last three months as having
formed a coterie, the others are also judging you, so don't expect that
your excuse of "I can't help it" cuts any ice with anybody here. As a
three-month new member of a twenty-one year old list, it would behoove you
to adjust yourself to the group dynamic and not expect that everybody else
on this group should accommodate your disruption, just because you "can't
help it."

The reason I've emphasized "from this email ID" is that the totality of the
things you have said leads me to conclude that you had been a member of
this list in the past, under a different ID. That is the only arthApatti
that can explain what is happening here. Nevertheless, we admit members in
good faith and we expect you to operate in good faith, but I strongly
suspect that you are not.

What were your expectations when joining Advaita-L in Feb 2017?

That you would ask, "whose is ajnAna?," wait for answers and then respond
with one-liners that basically say,

"I don't like Sankara's answer,"
"I don't like Madhusudana's answers,"
"I don't like any of your answers, because you are all not traditional
advaita AcAryas"

and then all of us would gaze wonder-struck at you, magically lose our
coterie-hood and praise your logical acumen?

Your response could be that you were not a member of this list under a
different name in the past, but had accessed our public archives from
before Feb 2017. If so, you would have had much more time than three months
to come to your conclusions about us. In that case, our being a coterie
should have also been readily apparent to you well in advance. I wonder
what motivated you towards joining us then. What was it that prompted you
to tell yourself, "here's a coterie, let me ask to join them, so that I can
tell them what a coterie they are"?

Personally, when I see that an online forum has no place for me, I leave it
alone and don't even ask to join in on their discussions. Joining in and
complaining within three months that there is a coterie here that excludes
you reveals extremely poor judgement on your part. No group likes a
newcomer who is a whiner and comes with a huge sense of entitlement.

Your alternative would be to accept that you had indeed been a member of
this list in the past. If so, do yourself a favor and let us all know what
used to be your old email ID from which you had participated on this list.
It just might help other list members reevaluate their own attitudes
towards you and your questions. Then again, it might just reinforce what
they already think of you.

Good luck.

Vidyasankar

ps. Prove us all wrong about your attitude and give yourself a chance to
prove yourself wrong about this list being a coterie. Prove me wrong for
suspecting that you used to be a member of the list in the past who
reappeared three months ago under a new email ID.