[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Pāśupata, Pāncharātra, etc. composed by Śiva and Viṣṇu as mohaka śāstra

[D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ]

*Here the baby is moksha*. it is neither tantra nor the veda.
Do not attempt to equate tantra to bathwater and save your veda as baby.

regards,
Sarma.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sure, both do not serve as a direct means for mokshA, however each of them
> are in fact useful in another way.
>
> Tantras are useful in getting shraddhA in veda, which will lead to vaidika
> karma in another birth. Vaidika karmas are useful in getting chitta shuddhi
> and belief in veda prAmANyam, which are both necessary for accepting the
> conclusions of jnAna kANDa.
>
> You are proposing to throw the baby with the bathwater, which is
> unnecessary and self defeating.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On 17 Feb 2017 2:08 p.m., "D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ" <dvnsarma at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> >If the tantrAs say that by following them one can get mokshA, they are
>> wrong. Irrespective of what any shAstra says, mokshA is not something to be
>> >given or taken. It is not something that is earned. The infinite achieved
>> by the finite is a logical fallacy. Further, if moksha occurs at a point in
>> time, then it >did not exist before that time, and therefore has a
>> beginning. Whatever has a beginning must have an end. If it ends, what is
>> the use of such a moksha?
>>
>> Moksha *cannot be got* by vedas or vaidika karmas.
>>
>> त्रैगुण्यविषयाः वेदाः निस्त्रैगुण्यो भवार्जुन
>> *न कर्मणा* न प्रजया.....
>> *न वेदा न यज्ञा *न तीर्थ ब्रुवन्ति
>>
>> In such case why go from one useless process (tantras) to another useless
>> process(vedic rituals).
>>
>> regards,
>> Sarma.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Firstly, the puNya from different karmas are not the same and cannot
>>> give the same results. So I am not sure how you can claim that "*this*
>>> puNya can be got by vedabahya tantras." In fact, what the bhAShya
>>> explicitly says is that the puNya gained from these veda bAhya systems is
>>> limited to giving shraddhA in vedas.
>>>
>>> I am also not sure on what basis you are concluding "They can continue
>>> to follow the tantras and get moksha " - there is nothing in the bhAshya
>>> that supports the view.
>>>
>>> If the tantrAs say that by following them one can get mokshA, they are
>>> wrong. Irrespective of what any shAstra says, mokshA is not something to be
>>> given or taken. It is not something that is earned. The infinite achieved
>>> by the finite is a logical fallacy. Further, if moksha occurs at a point in
>>> time, then it did not exist before that time, and therefore has a
>>> beginning. Whatever has a beginning must have an end. If it ends, what is
>>> the use of such a moksha?
>>>
>>> Therefore, the moksha that advaita talks about is quite unlike the
>>> moksha that any other system. It is not a state that is achieved in time,
>>> it is not going to another loka, it is simply understanding our fundamental
>>> nature, which is mukta.  We think we are not mukta, but that is merely a
>>> wrong notion. This wrong notion can only be corrected by right knowledge.
>>> Knowledge is not something that is achieved by action. It has to be
>>> generated by a pramANa.
>>>
>>> No other pramANa that we have access to, apart from shruti, speaks about
>>> our fundamental nature. That is why veda nishthA and shraddhA are
>>> important.  If this appears a lame invention, then I really have nothing
>>> further to add.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 1:19 PM, D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <
>>> dvnsarma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Performance of Vedic ritual is to get punya(apoorva). From the bhashya
>>>> it appears that this punya can be got by
>>>> vedabahya tantras. In addition parameswaranugraha also. What else is
>>>> needed? Why janmantara VedanishTha and KRitakRityata.
>>>> They can continue to follow the tantras and get moksha. That is what
>>>> tantras also say.
>>>> So all this circuitous exercise is a lame invention of
>>>> nanyadasthItivadins.
>>>>
>>>> A number of people who proclaim themselves to be advaitins are
>>>> prachchanna purvamimasakas.
>>>> They use the advaita as an armour to protect themselves from the
>>>> onslaught of buddhists etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>