[Advaita-l] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Praveen Bhat prabhuji
Hare Krishna
Thanks for taking time to clarify your position on this topic.  As I said earlier, if I continue this discussion with my way of understanding of the topic with other prabhuji-s  then it would appear like argument from my side questioning others understanding, which I want to avoid.  Anyway, this is my final post on this topic, kindly don’t think otherwise if you don’t hear from me anymore.
However, the idea in Bhagavatpadacharya's अर्धश्लोक is for the जीव to know the truth, akin to all the महावाक्यs, which deal with the oneness of the individual only.


Ø   When you mentioned about mahAvAkya-s, I just remembered shankara’s explanation about ‘tat’ pada in tattvamasi mahAvAkya in chAndOgya and tat padArtha in sUtra bhAshya.  The ‘tat’ here explained as : saH yaH sadAkhyaH eshaH uktO aNimA aNubhAvO “”jagatO mUlaM ItadAtmyaM etat sadAtmA yasya sarvasya tat etadAtma, tasya bhAvaH ItadAtmyaM””  Perhps you might know why I remembered this ☺


The questions that the individual faces are:

  1.  What is this world, which I find myself a part of?
  2.  Who created it?
  3.  Who am I and what is my connection to the creator and the world?

Ø   For all the three questions shruti itself has the answer.  This world has been created by Ishwara as per his previous srushti (dhAtA yathA pUrvamakalpayat) and what for he created this jagat??  This jagat is Ishwara hetukA and for the jeeva-s Shankara explains this in sUtra bhAshya : Ishwara hetukA eva srushtayO vyapadishyante, tadeva cha Ishwarasya phalahetutvaM yat svakarmanurUpAH prajAH srujateeti  and from which material he created  this jagat??  Shruti again answers this : yatO vA emAni bhUtAni jAyante, yena jAtAni jeevanti, satyamabhavat yadidam kiMcha, brahmaivedaM purastAt, brahmaivedaM vishvaM Hence traditionally Advaita says  brahman is the both efficient and material cause of this jagat.  And the third question is what makes one ‘mumukshU’ and this is what the jignAsa that we have to do with the help of shAstra and AcharyOpadesha.

The answers given are in 2nd, 1st and 3rd order of questions in the अर्धश्लोक:

  1.  The world is कार्यम्/ मिथ्या.

Ø   The world is kAryaM but I don’t think it is mithyA per se.  Yes, world is mithyA when it is seen aloof from brahman since it cannot have independent existence apart from its kAraNa, but that is not the case in Advaita, Advaita says for the world (kAryaM) kAraNa is brahman and kAryAkAra of jagat and its upAdAna is brahman and ultimately this kArya is kAraNa svarUpa only nothing else.

  1.  ब्रह्म is the कारणम्/ सत्यम्.

Ø   Prabhuji, don’t you get the doubt here how kAraNa brahma can be the creator of kArya jagat which is mithyA??  Can we say satya brahma/kAraNa is the creator of this mithyA jagat for which he is at the same time abhinna nimittOpadAna kAraNa??  And if the jagat is mithyA, why shruti saying sarvaM khalvidaM brahma, IdatAtmamidaM sarvaM, brahmaivedaM vishvaM, satyanchnrutaNcha satyamabhavat etc. If the brahma is satya in its kAraNa, the jagat is too satya in its kArya rUpa, it is because of the simple fact that there is kArya-kAraNa ananyatvaM.  Ananyatvepi kAryakAraNayOH kAryasya kAraNAtmatvaM says shankara in sUtra bhAshya to say kArya is nothing but kAraNa in its svarUpa.

  1.  जीवः ब्रह्म एव = कारणम् एव, न अपरः = न तु कार्यम्. The individual who considers himself as a created just like the world, is not the created. So the relation of the individual is that he is one with the creator and therefore the सत्य्-अधिष्ठान of मिथ्या-जगत्. His complex of body, mind and senses is part of the created world, मिथ्या प्रपञ्च, while he is not.

Ø   That chaitanya which is there in the jeeva is there in jagat also since he is the Atman for sakala charAchara vastu.  Itareya AraNyaka says brahman is there in inert things as well as innerconscious and will be projected little bit due to jadOpAdhi saMbandhaha, and taitereeya says brahman is annaM, annAdaM and shlOkakartuM as well..It is in this light shankara clarifies in chAdOgya : sarvaM cha nAmarUpAdi sadAtmanaiva satyaM vikAra jAtaM svatastu anrutameva.  So, my question remains, when we say jeeva (which is obviously endowed with upAdhi-s hence called jeeva) is brahma eva na aparaH, why there is partiality in acknowledging the kAraNa svarUpa of jagat is brahma when shankara himself saying sarvaM cha nAmarUpAdi sadAtmanaiva satyaM ??  Don’t you think either we have to call both jeeva & brahma are mithya ( since both are endowed with nAma rUpa upAdhi) or both are satyameva since in their svarUpa both are brahma only??
After the dawn of knowledge, at the level of व्यवहार the world still exists *as मिथ्या* for the ज्ञानी, but the जीव exists as one with ब्रह्म, *not as मिथ्या*.

Ø   What is this jeeva that exists in jnAni when jeeva itself is avidyA kalpita??  And jeeva itself means identification of an indivisual in his BMI is it not??  And as you said this BMI of an individual is also part of this mithyA jagat.  Here you are calling one part of the jagat (i.e. jeeva with upAdhi) is satya and other part (jagat outside the karaNa-s of this jeeva) as mithyA.  Moreover, jnAni would not see the jagat as mithyA he would look at the jagat as his own Atman nothing else.  Shankara/shruti  clarifies this  at various places.  I had given couple of examples already.  Yattu sarvAtmabhAvAt arvAk vAlAgramapi anyatvena drushyate nAhamasmeeti tadavasthA avidyA.  pUrvaM avidyayA asarva Aseet punaH vidyayA avidyApanaye sarvO bhavati.  Here shankara does not say sarvaM mithyA bhavati to insist that for the jnAni jagat is mithyA OTOH he is samadarshi, looking everything as Atman (his sva-svarUpa only) Rishi vAmadeva’s exclamation is garbha that he is manu Aditya too prove that he was seeing himself everywhere.  And he did not say manu & Aditya are part of the mithyA prapancha.  jnAni would see the satyatva in everything because for him ‘kArya prapancha’ is ‘vishesha’ darshana of kAraNa svarUpa.  Hence for him the socalled ‘bAhya lOka’ is no more bAhya and mithya, it is satya and Atmameva.  Sa cha bAhyalOkO nAstyasmAkaM AtmavyatiriktaH, sarvaM hi asmAkaM Atmabhutameva sarvasya cha vayaM AtmabhUtaH.  There is nothing that can be called asatyaM, mithyaM etc. when jnAni has this bhUma drushti clarifies again shankara in chAndOgya : sata eva dvaita bhedena anyathAgruhyamANatvAt na asatvaM kasyachit kvachit iti brumaH.
Having said all these, I am not at all claiming both jagat and brahma have the same level of reality, what I am trying to say is since kArya jagat is not abhinna from kAraNa like ring and bracelet not different from gold, kArya is satyameva in its kAraNa svarUpa.  I would like to conclude this last post of mine by quoting the following from sUtra bhAshya of shankara :
// just as brahman the cause never deviates from existence in all the three periods of time, so also the effect, the world never deviates from existence in all the three periods.  And existence again is only one. So for this reason also, the effect is none other than the cause. //
Prabhuji kindly pardon me, if my mail written in the tone of argument.  And as said above, I would like to rest my case with this.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar