[Advaita-l] Why does anything exist at all

[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 7:41 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> Namaste Sri Venkatesh Murthyji,
>
> Where Gaudapada Acharya says there is no Creation ( birth ), karikas 4-10
> to 4-13 , it means there is nothing Created having the same level of
> reality as that which Creates.


One may look at verse 3.48

माण्डूक्योपनिषद्भाष्यम् । अद्वैतप्रकरणम् । कारिका ४८
न कश्चिज्जायते जीवः सम्भवोऽस्य न विद्यते ।
*एतत्तदुत्तमं सत्यं यत्र किञ्चिन्न जायते *॥ ४८ ॥

and the bhāṣhya thereon:

माण्डूक्योपनिषद्भाष्यम् । अद्वैतप्रकरणम् । कारिका ४८ - भाष्यम्
सर्वोऽप्ययं मनोनिग्रहादिः *मृल्लोहादिवत्सृष्टिरुपासना च उक्ता
परमार्थस्वरूपप्रतिपत्त्युपायत्वेन, न परमार्थसत्येति । *परमार्थसत्यं तु न
कश्चिज्जायते जीवः कर्ता भोक्ता च नोत्पद्यते केनचिदपि प्रकारेण । अतः
स्वभावतः अजस्य अस्य एकस्यात्मनः सम्भवः कारणं न विद्यते नास्ति । यस्मान्न
विद्यतेऽस्य कारणम्, तस्मान्न कश्चिज्जायते जीव इत्येतत् ।
पूर्वेषूपायत्वेनोक्तानां
सत्यानाम् एतत् उत्तमं सत्यं यस्मिन्सत्यस्वरूपे ब्रह्मणि अणुमात्रमपि
किञ्चिन्न जायते इति ॥

After having said that no jiva ever is born, it is further emphasized that
nothing is ever born.  The purpose of delineation of creation by the shruti
is only an upāya, means, to enable the aspirant to know the ultimate
truth.  Having said this, the vedanta siddhanta is that nothing ever is
born.  The very concept of something coming into being is alien to
vedanta.  This very idea is again brought in kārikā/bhāṣya 4.71 too.

regards
subrahmanian.v





> " Creation " by Brahman is covered in
> karikas 2-16 onwards. There is no contradiction. Mandukya Upanishad and the
> karikas exemplify one of the two main prakriyas ( tecniques ) employed
> leading to the final conclusion as per Advaita Sidhanta. This is Drishti
> Srishti prakriya. There are two levels of Reality namely Paramarthika and
> Prathibhasika. There is Creation but it is prathibhasika only. The Creator
> is Brahman only.
>
> Practically all the other Upanishads perhaps concentrate on the second
> prakriya , namely Srishta Drishti prakriya. Three levels of Reality are
> admitted - Paramarthika, Vyavaharika and Pratibhasika. A " reasonable "
> level of reality is admitted in the Vyavaharika level. This prakriya is
> more in line with common experience. It does accept Creation to begin with
> and proceeds to lead to the ultimate conclusion in a specified manner. Here
> also the Creator is Brahman only.
>
> Both the prakriyas ultimately lead to the same Goal/conclusion which is
> that Brahman is the Sole Absolute Reality. There is no dispute about it.
> But Drishti Srishti prakriya is considered to be far more difficult to
> understand and appreciate than the Srishta Drishti prakriya because the
> latter is more in line with commonly understood experience. Hence the
> former is considered  appropriate for more advanced sadhakas while the
> latter is recommended for the sadhakas in the initial stages of sadhana.
>
> There is therefore no reason to dispute Creation itself per se. It could be
> used as a starting point for  understanding  the final conclusion.
>
> Regards
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > Namaste Sri Chandramouli
> >
> > You are correct but only at a temporary level. If you read Gaudapaada
> > Karikas you can see there is no Creation and no Destruction also. Nothing
> > is created. Nothing is Born. Nothing dies. Only Brahman is there. It is
> > never Born. It never dies. It is not correct to say Brahman is creating
> > something.
> >
> > But if someone says now there is Creation it must be Nothing only.
> Because
> > Nothing is created according to Gaudapaada.
> >
> > If you say Brahman is Creator it will make Brahman the Author of this
> > Illusion. But Brahman cannot create Illusions. The Illusion is Maayaa
> only.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM, H S Chandramouli <
> > hschandramouli at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > No sir. Advaita Sidhanta is very clear on this. Maaya is jada and
> > > cannot/does not  create on its own. Brahman/Consciousness/Atman is
> > > responsible for Creation. Since Brahman is presented as Actionless on
> its
> > > own, Maaya is presented as the intermediary which acts with the
> > > backing/blessings of Brahman and is considered as the Shakti/Power of
> > > Brahman. Its status of existence  is considered Anirvachaniya because
> it
> > > cannot be apprehended directly but its existence  is inferred from the
> > > effect ( Creation ).
> > >
> > > There are a number of Sutras in BS in this regard for which the Bhashya
> > is
> > > very clear. I presume there is really no need to enumerate them here
> > again.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Namaste
> > >>
> > >> Creation cannot be from Shunya or Nothing. Because if Universe is
> > created
> > >> from Nothing the Universe also will be Shunya only. This is coming
> from
> > >> Sat
> > >> Karya Vada. The Effect and Cause cannot be different.
> > >>
> > >> The Universe is NOT Shunya but Maayaa only. Maayaa is the Creator.
> > Brahman
> > >> is not Creator. Brahman cannot Create or Destroy anything. If Brahman
> > >> creates Universe the Universe will be Paramartha Satya but it is not
> the
> > >> case.
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:20 AM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> > >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Namaste. As per advaita sidhanta, Creation is not from Nothing nor
> > from
> > >> > Maaya either. Creation is from Brahman only, but only an Appearence
> in
> > >> > Brahman. Meaning thereby that it has a lower level of Reality as
> > >> compared
> > >> > to Brahman itself. Maaya is considered as an intermediary step
> between
> > >> > Brahman and Creation and of the same order of Reality as Creation.
> For
> > >> > purposes of analysis , It is formally considered as the source for
> > >> Creation
> > >> > ( instead of Brahman ) since it is of the same level of Reality and
> > >> lends
> > >> > itself to be easily integrated into any analysis of Creation.
> Loosely
> > >> > worded explanation of course.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:13 AM, D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <
> > >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > शब्दजालं महारण्यं चित्तभ्रमणकारणम्
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We have to understand what the scientists mean by nothing.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > There is an "achala paripurNa" school in Andhra which calls
> reality
> > as
> > >> > > "batta bayalu" = open space.
> > >> > > They also call it as nothing.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > regards,
> > >> > > Sarma.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Swami Sarvabhutananda via
> > Advaita-l <
> > >> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > How can something come from nothing!
> > >> > > > On 14 Dec 2014 22:09, "Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l" <
> > >> > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Namaste,
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> >
> > http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > This article is saying -
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > 'Their admittedly controversial answer is that the entire
> > >> universe,
> > >> > > from
> > >> > > > > the fireball of the Big Bang to the star-studded cosmos we now
> > >> > inhabit,
> > >> > > > > popped into existence from nothing at all. It had to happen,
> > they
> > >> > say,
> > >> > > > > because "nothing" is inherently unstable.'
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > In Advaita we say the Universe is produced by Maayaa. But
> Maayaa
> > >> is
> > >> > not
> > >> > > > > Nothing. It is Not Sat and Not Asat also. Science is still
> > lagging
> > >> > > behind
> > >> > > > > Advaita because Scientists are saying Universe is arising from
> > >> > Nothing.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > --
> > >> > > > > Regards
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > -Venkatesh
> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >> -Venkatesh
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > -Venkatesh
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