[Advaita-l] A perspective -20

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:



> Even in vyavahaarika sattha *we all know who we are* without the medium of
> the mind.
>
> Shree Anbu -PraNAms



This may be my last mail on this topic since I had discussed the role of the
mind in the previous posts.



No. from my understanding what you say is not correct. No knowledge can take
place without the mind, including self-knowledge. There is no mind in the
suShupti. Mind is needed even to know that I am ignorant. Only in the waking
state when the mind is awake, I make a statement that I did not know
anything in the deep sleep state, since mind was not there to know that I
was ignorant at that time. Sureswara discusses this point eloberately in his
Naiskarmya Siddhi.



In vyavahaara, I identify with the BMI where ahankaara which is part of
antaHkaraNa or Mind in general term with identification as I am this, where
this includes starting with intellect, mind and body- So without the mind, I
would do not know who I am is. Mind is absent in the deep sleep state or it
is in potential form - so is my notion of who am I. I do not know even
ignorance too since mind is absent. With the mind present no realization -
says amRitabindu Upanishad. This has been analyzed by Sureshwara and
Vidyaranya exhaustively.



About animals’ and in fact for that matter any body else’s realization is
matter of faith.  If you believe that, let that be so - a belief.  . Beliefs
are unquestionable since they are beliefs.



About the 10th story, I will be analyzing soon.
Hari Om!
Sadananda




> In the vexed example the intellect never found the tenth man.  Is it not
> the
> fact?
>
> I am saying this to show that the role of the intellect is over-blown.  It
> doesn't deserve all these credits.
>
> Even though we know who we are, thanks to the intellect we slip into
> believing that we are the incomplete jeeva who is born and dead.  It is
> only
> when the Guru comes to you and tells those magic words "Thath Thwam Asi"
> that you realize that you are complete and full and you are none other than
> the Parabrahmam.  At that moment all other arguments that had justified
> this
> Mahavaakya is lost by the wayside. Intellect has no way of bringing about
> this realization.  The realization is for you, by you and of you.  And when
> it happens the intellect and all other units of the prakrithi vanishes like
> the mist before the sun.  In one way the realization is the actual killing
> of the intellect.
>
> Bhagavan Ramana has given moksha to animate and inanimate objects and there
> is no role for the intellect in them at all.  This is the prathyaksha
> pramaaNam for many of us.  Even though he became 'famous' because of his
> superior arguments that fed the imagination of the intellectuals in his
> exposition of 'who am I' he always told the seekers to give up the
> intellect. As you know the intellect is part of the ahamkara that one has
> to
> lose in order to gain Self-Realization.  It, the intellect, is a hindrance
> to attaining mOksha.  When an ordinary person who witnessed a great debate
> between Bhagavan and the intellectuals later approached Bhagavan and asked
> him if he as saamaanyan will have hope because he is not versed in the
> Vedas
> etc.  And to him Bhagavan said such knowledge is no pre-requisite and he is
> more than qualified for he has reached the Guru.
>
> You have to remember that the intellect delights in reordering the many
> into
> its own concept of harmony.  Take away the many, the intellect pines and
> dies.
>
>
> Subhamasthu.
> Anbu
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
>  ksadananda108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Anbuji - PraNAms -
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Paramaarthika sattha is beyond the reach of the human mind and it is
> > > unnegateable.  Yet the intellect can infer that this is the only
> Reality
> > > that is FULL."  There are a lot of Vedic pramanas to support this view
> > and
> > > I
> > > am sure you will agree.
> > >
> > Here is my perspective for clarification.
> >
> > The statement - Yet the intellect can infer that this is the only reality
> > that is full - cought my attention.
> > I must say it is not inference by the intellect. It is the direct
> > perception
> > as in the tenth man. I see directly the light of consciousness as
> saakshii
> > as reflected illumination by the mind or intellect - just as during the
> day
> > time the house is bright by the reflected sunlight all over -I say I see
> > the
> > the sunlight is all over even the sun is directly not seen- cannot be
> seen
> > too.
> > All pervading consciousness cannot be -seen-. Yet using the mind as
> > reflecting mediuam I see the light of consciousness that is getting
> > reflected in every thought that rises in the mind. I am neither known nor
> > unknown but the very knowing principle - says Kena.
> >
> > Hari Om!
> > Sadananda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The aim is to lose the ignorance of you being the tenth man.  As the
> > story
> > > points out the intellect is not the only way to lose that ignorance. In
> > all
> > > our scriptures they proclaim loudly the importance of the role of this
> > > Chaithanyam viz. the Guru that removes the ignorance.  Simply,
> > > "Aachaaryavaan PurushO Vedha:"
> > >
> > > In respect of the intellect please do not forget that it belongs to the
> > > prakrthi.  The dormant intellect is of thaamasic nature getting swept
> > away
> > > by the forces of nature.  As Bhagavan Ramana says:  'Dehaathma
> > > buddhEgnyajadau samaanau'.
> > >
> > > So this intellect is sought to be awakened by means of prayer to
> Savithri
> > > by
> > > the Gayathri manthra.  The swabhaavam of the active intellect is to
> > > discriminate.  The final discrimination would be for it to discriminate
> > > between the Real and the unreal like the kindling wood that releases
> the
> > > fire but as you would know that this kidling wood has also to be
> > consigned
> > > into that fire!
> > >
> > > Yet in all these processes you would notice that the intellect as the
> > inert
> > > entity has no way of doing anything on its own!!
> > >
> > > Actually the entire mithya of jagath has been perfected and upheld by
> > this
> > > intellect.  Can you deny it?  The intellect is much rather a generator
> of
> > > falsehood and that is its swaroopa lakshanam.  One should stop fooling
> > > around with that.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Anbu
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
> > > ksadananda108 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Shree Ambuji - PraNams
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 3:44 AM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Perhaps my earlier posting on Sivaanandhalahari dealing with this
> > > subject
> > > > > in
> > > > > three parts may be of help.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > .  Advaitha teaches us that giving up the intellect enables one
> > > > > to become one with this Reality.
> > > > >
> > > > I think it has already been pointed that what is to be given up is
> not
> > > > intellect but misconceptions of the intellect. With intellect only
> one
> > > has
> > > > to realize. Without the intellect - one is as good as animal -
> budhyaa
> > > > vihiinaaH pashubhi samaanaaH - says niiti vaakyam.
> > > > With mind alone one need to realize. without the mind reflecting the
> > > > illuminating consciousness, one cannot recognize the all pervading
> > light
> > > of
> > > > consciousness. With mirro alone one can see the face - one should not
> > > > misunderstand that image is the real. Similalry with the reflecting
> > > > consciousness in the intellect, one has to use viveka to shift
> > attention
> > > to
> > > > the original using that very reflection. That is what nitya anitya
> > vastu
> > > > viveka involves. Giving up the image as not the original is sanyaasa.
> > > > Shifting attention to the orginal using the image reflection is yoga.
> > > >
> > > > The mithyaa aspect discussed was from adviata siddhi - definitions of
> > > > falsity.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps
> > > >
> > > > Hari Om!
> > > > Sadananda
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