[Advaita-l] Jivanmukti - Jnana plus Sannyasa pt 4

[Anbu sivam2]

Michaelji,

Mind is a bundle of thoughts.  All thoughts begin with the 'I' thought.

Buddhi is consentual to the thoughts with its idea of dehaathma.

When a person wakes up from deep sleep with only the mind and the ego (the
'I' thought) then he enters the dream state.

In dream state the buddhi is absent.

Without buddhi in the dream state, the time and space get warped.  Soon the
mind gets tired and dies and you get back to deep sleep.  Or if it were a
nightmare one might wake up into waking state with mind, buddhi and ego all
come alive.

It is the mind that drags one ('I' thought) to the world of multiplicity or
into the darkness of ignorance.  It however needs the help of the buddhi to
get the world it enters into an order that it can cope with.  And the buddhi
does extend the helping hand because of its idea of dehaathma.

If buddhi loses the idea of dehaathma by the Grace of the Guru and by
inquiry then it would deny the temptation of the mind (thoughts) to drag you
into the world of ignorance.

Thus without the 'I' thought the mind dies and the buddhi would have no more
role to play.  That is when you know to give it up!

And are you asking what is 'the inquiry'?

Simple!  Find out where the 'I' thought comes from.  You would love to
remain there!


On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> I doubt if that's so. All that goes on in the mind passes through buddhi
> and
> even a realized man needs it in his dealings with others ? e.g. when taking
> questions ?
> Also 'does it 'go' or simplpy become quiescent when not required ?
> Patanjali
> doesn't really go into this.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> sivam2
>  Sent: 29 September 2009 17:45
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Jivanmukti - Jnana plus Sannyasa pt 4
>
>
>
> Michaelji,
>
> Buddhi is alright and is actually needed for a man of active mind to know
> the real from the unreal.  Once such knowledge is attained it has to go and
> in most cases it does.
>
> *As long as Buddhi is there the mind is also there and the mind keeps
> denying the Real!*
>
> Once one knows the Real he realizes that everything happens as destined.
> "Karthur aagnyayaa praapyathE phalam".  At that time he realizes that the
> role of buddhi is useless and even a hinderance.  So the knower surrenders
> buddhi to the kartha.
>
> Actually a person of faith does surrender the buddhi even before the
> realization in the technical sense, in great abandon.  He is no loser
> either.
>
> That is because he (like everyone else) is none other than Brahman all the
> time!
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Michael Shepherd <
> michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Because, Anbuji, it is the discriminating mirror of consciousness itself,
> > and only needs to be wiped clean.. I was only clearing it of any
> suggestion
> > that it could harbour its own ill intentions...:)
> >
> > I find my buddhi very useful, especially on this website... ;)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> > sivam2
> > Sent: 29 September 2009 15:28
> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Jivanmukti - Jnana plus Sannyasa pt 4
> >
> >
> >
> > Michaelji,
> >
> > Why would you want a cleaned and washed buddhi?  What use is it to you?
> > What would you be without a buddhi (cleaned and washed OR otherwise)?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Michael Shepherd <
> > michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Anbuji
> > >
> > > Sounds fine by me !
> > >
> > > Except I'm not too happy about blaming some sort of bad buddhi for this
> > > dehatma bhava. Rather, surely,  that divine and perfect instrument,
> > buddhi,
> > > has to be cleansed and washed of what ahamkara has loaded on it !
> > >
> > > However, this is all in the realms of maya and mithya in terms of this
> > > English dictionary  loaded with 'I am the doer..' ! :)
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > > [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> > > sivam2
> > > Sent: 29 September 2009 13:18
> > > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Jivanmukti - Jnana plus Sannyasa pt 4
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Michaelji,
> > >
> > > Sunilji is right in pointing out that karma is sine qua non of
> > embodiment.
> > > But is 'dehaathma buddhi'  a pre-requisite of embodiment?  Our sages
> have
> > > answered it with a resounding 'NO'.  You can be embodied but need not
> > > identify yourself with it.  Such disengement with the body takes place
> > > irrespective of the aashrama you are in.
> > >
> > > In his discourse with Ganapathi Muni Bhagavan Ramana said "dehaathma
> > buddhE
> > > gnyajadow samaanow".  That automaton (the buddhi that takes the body to
> > be
> > > aathma) has to be broken by that very buddhi by the process of enquiry!
> > It
> > > is the buddhi that identifies oneself with body, mind, intellect and so
> > on.
> > > This buddhi is the culprit whom we have to lose.  This log of wood is
> > > pregnant with the fire that destroys it!
> > >
> > > My humble interlude with Shyamji was to bring to his attention that
> > > self-inquiry is not to be deferred to any particular ashrama.  Changes
> in
> > > ashrama takes its own course and should be held as part of the
> praarabhda
> > > karma but the self-inquiry starts right from the birth.  It starts with
> > > 'dehaathma buddhi'.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Michael Shepherd <
> > > michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > May I add something from experience in the ashrama ?
> > > >
> > > > Those who have been well and spiritually educated up to age 16 are
> well
> > > set
> > > > for life, could not be better set.
> > > >
> > > > But for most, householder and bread-winner coincide in the next
> > ashrama.
> > > > So we are going to spend that time in an environment which is calling
> > for
> > > > 'I am the doer..'
> > > > But how valuable to attempt to have upasana of the mahavakya in one's
> > > > working life, let alone at home ! One person alone in a factory,
> > go-down,
> > > or
> > > > office who hold the mahavakya within, can lighten the tone of the
> whole
> > > > workplace and lift that burden of 'I am the doer' a little or a lot..
> > > >
> > > > And then vanaprastha becomes, can become, a life of bliss. As someone
> > > here
> > > > said to me, 'It's a time for attending to those aspects of samashthi
> > > which
> > > > have not previously been fully attended to'..
> > > >
> > > > One may never attain or choose sannyasa. But I'm sure that there are
> a
> > > > number on this site who would acknowledge that -- especially these
> days
> > > of
> > > > easier communication which don't involve a weary body, and longer
> lives
> > > of
> > > > retirement...vanaprastha is going to become the glory of spiritual
> life
> > > in
> > > > the 21st century..
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>