[Advaita-l] Thanks for the replies on should women read the Vedas?
vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk
vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk
Wed Sep 23 16:23:55 CDT 2009
Thanks to Michael, Anbu, Syam and all who replied to my question.
I agree that chanting and studying the Veda ( Jnana kanda and Karma
Kanda) requires particular capabilities and not all can do it
correctly.
However, I have seen and heard of some women purohits in India and
abroad and have seen women well versed in vedanta and scriptures. I am
sure in the centuries to come, women will enter this field with
enthusiasm. Note: In many families, women perform the home pooja to the
deities installed in the family home. So with the appropriate training
and nurturing of abilities some should be able to do this work
professionally.
As far as Purushamedha (human sacrifice) is concerned I am sure this
did take place in India many many years ago but is not done these days.
Thanks,
Vijaya Kambhampati.
>----Original Message----
>From: advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Date: 23/09/2009 18:00
>To: <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Subj: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 62, Issue 22
>
>Send Advaita-l mailing list submissions to
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Purusamedha - Literary and Archeological - Ref
> (S Jayanarayanan)
> 2. Prakrti at Play (Shyam)
> 3. Re: Saundarya Lahiri (D.V.N. Sarma)
> 4. Re: Purusamedha - Literary and Archeological - Ref
> (Satish Arigela)
> 5. Re: women reading the Vedas (vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk)
> 6. Re: women reading the Vedas (vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk)
> 7. Re: women reading the Vedas (Michael Shepherd)
> 8. Re: women reading the Vedas (Sarma KV)
> 9. Re: women reading the Vedas (Anbu sivam2)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:18:17 -0700 (PDT)
>From: S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Purusamedha - Literary and Archeological -
> Ref
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Message-ID: <479083.42056.qm at web50801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>--- On Tue, 9/22/09, Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>> To Kartik:
>> >This is not a legitimate argument - the prohibition can
>> certainly exist to remove any >possible doubt that humans
>> are the victims of the sacrifice.
>> ?
>> It is not enough to brush it aside as an invalid argument.
>> There are some statements forbidding certain acts. I do
>> understand and agree that for some of these, inferring that
>> contrary things was done in the past based on the
>> prohibition will lead to silly conclusions. But in our case
>> here, clearly the work says that when they are --about to be
>> sacrificed-- they heard a voice asking them not to sacrifice
>> the human victim. So isnt it reasonable (ofcourse when
>> combined with other evidence) to infer that before this work
>> came into existence(or composed?if you would prefer), the
>> human was likely sacrificed?
>> ?
>
>There are many conclusions that can be drawn in the above instance.
The story may serve to underline the point that human sacrifices are
NOT being intended, so "be careful not to misconstrue these
injunctions".
>
>[..]
>
>> >In the Mahabharata, king Jarasandha wishes to sacrifice
>> to Shiva the enemy kings that he >has defeated and held
>> captive. Along with Arjuna and Bhima, Krishna arrives at
>> >Jarasandha's kingdom and says:
>>
>> If jarAsandha intended to sacrifice to --shiva-- then it is
>> no longer a shrauta ritual and hence the topic is not
>> relevant for our discussion.
>> ?
>
>Think again!
>
>Krishna says:
>
> manuShyANA.n samAlambho na cha dR^iShTaH kadA chana .
>
> "The sacrifice of men is not seen anywhere."
>
>IF human sacrifice as enjoined by the Vedic texts actually occurred
as you claim, WHY is it that Krishna says that NO human sacrifice OF
ANY KIND (including those that are supposedly enjoined by the Veda) can
be seen during that time?
>
>The word "dR^iShTaH" is important - it indicates that such sacrifice
MAY have occurred in a hidden place such as a jungle or a cave outside
the eye of the society, but that it was not practised among those who
have nothing to hide in their actions that conform to dharma.
>
>In fact, those who deal with the society in a dharmic way NEVER have
anything to hide from anyone!
>
>Regards,
>Kartik
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Shyam <shyam_md at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Advaita-l] Prakrti at Play
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <813844.48760.qm at web53412.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Dear friends
>I found this video not only touching but also illuminating at so many
levels.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpfvkeo0KBc
>
>mrtyuh sarva-haras caham udbhavas ca bhavisyatam
>
>Hari OM
>Shyam
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:52:38 +0530
>From: "D.V.N. Sarma" <dvnsarma at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Saundarya Lahiri
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
> <776ad6cd0909221722t6785d418u77bb0b3b798d176c at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Namo Namah
>
>Unless by South India Sri Iyer means tamil nadu, I am afraid that the
>huge majority of
>South Indians i.e., telugus, kannadigas, malayalees, maharashtrians
>and gujaratis
>do not understand tamil.
>
>On 9/21/09, narayan iyer <z1e1b1r1a at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The bhashyam is in Tamil and
>> all South Indians can enjoy the bhashyam. The bhashyam is
excellent.
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Purusamedha - Literary and Archeological -
> Ref
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <412760.91437.qm at web53502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>Since I said last post earlier.. I held off for sometime.. but
responding as I was surprised when I saw the kind of?reasoning employed
here.
>?
>>There are many conclusions that can be drawn in the above instance.
The story may >serve to underline the point that human sacrifices are
NOT being intended, so "be careful >not to misconstrue these
injunctions".
>?
>No one misconstrued it here :) A few ancient commentators on the
sUtra-s confirm this.
>Dont talk as if this is the only reference to be found in the entire
literature. I *clearly* said that this is to be read in conjunction --
with other evidence-- *and then* infer.
>
>?
>>IF human sacrifice as enjoined by the Vedic texts actually occurred
as you claim, WHY is >it that Krishna says that NO human sacrifice OF
ANY KIND (including those that are >supposedly enjoined by the Veda)
can be seen during that time?
>?
>I can similarly ask you *WHY* is it that the old commentators mention
a human sacrifice and *WHY* is it that you ignore other evidence??
>?
>Maybe because the later author who wrote this dialogue in the
mahAbhArata never heard or seen a human sacrifice? The author(certainly
not vyAsa** - common let us be a little reasonable here)?of this
episode being uninformed on the matter is not proof for its non-
existence.
>?
>>The word "dR^iShTaH" is important - it indicates that such sacrifice
MAY have occurred in >a hidden place such as a jungle or a cave outside
the eye of the society, but that it was >not practised among those who
have nothing to hide in their actions that conform to >dharma.
>>In fact, those who deal with the society in a dharmic way NEVER have
anything to hide >from anyone!
>?
>When a soma yAga was performed in Andhra in 2001, it was done in an
isolated place where no one can see. I hope you understand that I mean
no one but the performers.
>Again the AruNakeTuka chayana that happened in Andhra in 2002 and the
agnishchayana in 2008 was also perfomed in a place far away where the
common man cannot come there unintentionally.
>?
>Since these were done in hidden places do you conclude that these are
undharmic acts?
>?
>Let me extend this... when doing mantra japa you hide the japa mAla
or if with fingers you hide with a cloth..what are you going to infer
from this? Or for that matter shrIchakra pUja which is done in secret.
>?
>Why the need to focus on some non-relevant(just look at that -
something is?done in secret and so it must be undhArmic-- reasoning!)?
points..while ignoring direct evidence on the matter?
>?
>**vyAsa - I am assuming it is common knowledge by now that the text
contains layers.. which developed into its present form after many
additions. As an example - Consider the interpolation where it is
mentioned that vaiShNava purANa-s are sAttvic and shaiva purANa-s being
tAmasic etc which madhva-s are often fond of quoting. Some old memebers
in the list who argued against madhva-s and vaiShNava-s on some points
will surely remember. :)
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:14:46 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
>From: "vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk"
> <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <31574049.1253697286012.JavaMail.root at ps33.mc.tiscali.
sys>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset="UTF-8"
>
>Dear Advaita request list,
>
>Sorry to go back to a few weeks ago. But there was a question
>regarding whether women should read the Vedas or not.
>
>I have been told by a source that the word 'STRI' can be split to SA
+
>TRI meaning one wedded to the three gunas. This could refer to one
who
>is physically male or female.
>
>So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so long
>as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>them.
>
>Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>
>Also there have been instances of Sages teaching women the Vedas and
>of women being well versed in the Vedas.
>
>Women brahmacharinis exist in may hindu organistations doing
excellent
>work from a good understanding of the hindu religion.
>
>Vijaya Kambhampati.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Internet Security tips and offers from Tiscali - http://www.tiscali.
co.uk/security
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:34:36 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
>From: "vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk"
> <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Message-ID: <31199894.1253712876233.JavaMail.root at ps31>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>
>
>
>Dear Satish and advaita request list,
>
>Sorry but I am not entirely clear.
>
>Are women prohibited from even listenning to and understanding a
pravachan of Vedanta? By Vedas do we mean Vedanta? ie. Is even
listenning and understanding the philosophy of the Upanishads is
prohibited to them??
>
>Chanting is difficult for most people and so it is understandable
that there are restrictions on who does the chanting. However, vedanta
(pravachans on Upanishads) seem to be widely available for all to
listen to, understand and enjoy these days.
>
>Surely there is no restriction on a woman attending a talk on the
upanishads??? or even imbibing that learning in her life?????
>
>Thanks
>
>Vijaya.
>----Original Message----
>From: satisharigela at yahoo.com
>Date: 23/09/2009 11:21
>To: <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>
>Subj: Re: women reading the Vedas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so
long
>>as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>>them.
>
>I have tried in vain to understand why some people insist that some
groups should learn the veda when it is clarified in hundreds of works
that they are not meant to say the veda.
>
>There are like thousand spiritual options for these groups(like women
shUdra-s) mentioned in the purANa-s and Agama-s. Why this fixation with
chanting only that which is forbidden and leave all the other options
that the tradition provides?
>
>To me this is simply a case of attraction towards that which is
forbidden. Like in the story where "the doctor advises the patient not
to think about a monkey... and for the next couple of hours the patient
could only think of the monkey". :)
>
>>Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>
>Somebody else might feel puruShamedha is ok in today's world based on
some vague references and ritually slaughter the guy next door...So you
or me feeling something does not make it right. He will be sent to jail
for man slaughter...so is it with women saying the veda-s..
>
>I find it really hard to understand this:...why when many many
religious options are given and said do not chant the veda-s but you
are free to follow any of those thousand options....still people yearn
for the one things which is forbidden leaving all legitimate options???
>
>--- On Wed, 9/23/09, vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <vijaya1.
kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>From: vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.
co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 4:14 AM
>
>
>Dear Advaita request list,
>
>Sorry to go back to a few weeks ago. But there was a question
>regarding whether women should read the Vedas or not.
>
>I have been told by a source that the word 'STRI' can be split to SA
+
>TRI meaning one wedded to the three gunas. This could refer to one
who
>is physically male or female.
>
>So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so long
>as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>them.
>
>Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>
>Also there have been instances of Sages teaching women the Vedas and
>of women being well versed in the Vedas.
>
>Women brahmacharinis exist in may hindu organistations doing
excellent
>work from a good understanding of the hindu religion.
>
>Vijaya Kambhampati.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Internet Security tips and offers from Tiscali - http://www.tiscali.
co.uk/security
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________
>Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
>To unsubscribe or change your options:
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>
>
>Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:09:26 +0100
>From: "Michael Shepherd" <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>, "A discussion group for
> Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
> <ACEDIOLGHJFCANGNFFOIEEAFLDAA.michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Vijaya ji,
>
>Previous discussion on these lists, often based on interpretations of
>Manusmrti, have suggested that 'book-study' and jnana of the Veda was
not
>required of women; but understanding of the Veda and Vedanta was
received
>by the husband from his guru, and by the wife from her husband (and
thereby
>strengthening the bond between them for the benefit of both: Shiva
and
>Shakti in human karma).
>
>That seems to me to leave the situation open for modern
interpretation.
>Women seem to 'hear' the shastra in a much more practical way of
>understanding than men...
>
>OK, shoot me down after that ! :)
>
>Michael
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of
>vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk
>Sent: 23 September 2009 14:35
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Dear Satish and advaita request list,
>
>Sorry but I am not entirely clear.
>
>Are women prohibited from even listenning to and understanding a
pravachan
>of Vedanta? By Vedas do we mean Vedanta? ie. Is even listenning and
>understanding the philosophy of the Upanishads is prohibited to
them??
>
>Chanting is difficult for most people and so it is understandable
that there
>are restrictions on who does the chanting. However, vedanta
(pravachans on
>Upanishads) seem to be widely available for all to listen to,
understand and
>enjoy these days.
>
>Surely there is no restriction on a woman attending a talk on the
>upanishads??? or even imbibing that learning in her life?????
>
>Thanks
>
>Vijaya.
>----Original Message----
>From: satisharigela at yahoo.com
>Date: 23/09/2009 11:21
>To: <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>
>Subj: Re: women reading the Vedas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so long
>>as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>>them.
>
>I have tried in vain to understand why some people insist that some
groups
>should learn the veda when it is clarified in hundreds of works that
they
>are not meant to say the veda.
>
>There are like thousand spiritual options for these groups(like women
>shUdra-s) mentioned in the purANa-s and Agama-s. Why this fixation
with
>chanting only that which is forbidden and leave all the other options
that
>the tradition provides?
>
>To me this is simply a case of attraction towards that which is
forbidden.
>Like in the story where "the doctor advises the patient not to think
about a
>monkey... and for the next couple of hours the patient could only
think of
>the monkey". :)
>
>>Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>
>Somebody else might feel puruShamedha is ok in today's world based on
some
>vague references and ritually slaughter the guy next door...So you or
me
>feeling something does not make it right. He will be sent to jail for
man
>slaughter...so is it with women saying the veda-s..
>
>I find it really hard to understand this:...why when many many
religious
>options are given and said do not chant the veda-s but you are free
to
>follow any of those thousand options....still people yearn for the
one
>things which is forbidden leaving all legitimate options???
>
>--- On Wed, 9/23/09, vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk
><vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>From: vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.
co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 4:14 AM
>
>
>Dear Advaita request list,
>
>Sorry to go back to a few weeks ago. But there was a question
>regarding whether women should read the Vedas or not.
>
>I have been told by a source that the word 'STRI' can be split to SA
+
>TRI meaning one wedded to the three gunas. This could refer to one
who
>is physically male or female.
>
>So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so long
>as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas within
>them.
>
>Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>
>Also there have been instances of Sages teaching women the Vedas and
>of women being well versed in the Vedas.
>
>Women brahmacharinis exist in may hindu organistations doing
excellent
>work from a good understanding of the hindu religion.
>
>Vijaya Kambhampati.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Internet Security tips and offers from Tiscali -
>http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________
>Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
>To unsubscribe or change your options:
>http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
>For assistance, contact:
>listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>
>
>Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>_______________________________________________
>Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
>To unsubscribe or change your options:
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>
>For assistance, contact:
>listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:04:57 -0500
>From: Sarma KV <sarmakv at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: "vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk"
> <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>, A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
> <d53e9e140909230804yab7b11clb4078d6a89a6cd78 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>Vijaya ji,
>
>
>Are women prohibited from even listenning to and understanding a
pravachan
>of Vedanta? By Vedas do we mean Vedanta? ie. Is even listenning and
>understanding the philosophy of the Upanishads is prohibited to
them??
>
>1. *vEda* and *vEdAnta* are not the same. *vEdAnta* is subset of the
>*vEda*(their meaning, actually.) But, the non-
>*vEdAntic* part of *vEda-artha* is ritualistic detail (and such
things) and
>so, it is not for meant for "common public." Some parts of the
>*vEda-artha*(as is the
>*vEda* itself) is 'accessible' to women, who are engaged in the
rituals like
>the *yajna*-s.
>2. Among the general public (esp. women), there are some restrictions
on who
>should and when to listen and when not to, the *vEda-mantra*-s. When
in
>menstruation, women should not listen to any mantra-s. Why - is a
different
>topic and a big digression. *aruNam* should not be heard by pregnant
women.
>Some such other restrictions are there. Some should not be even
chanted
>post-lunch. Some should not be chanted after sunset.
>3. There are no restrictions on listening and understanding the
'meaning' by
>way of *pravachanam*-s etc., especially of *upanishat*-s. *Sradhdha*
should
>be there, that's all.
>
>
>Surely there is no restriction on a woman attending a talk on the
>upanishads??? or even imbibing that learning in her life?????
>
>Such listening (with proper intent and *Sradhdha*, of course) and
"imbibing
>the learning in her life" is not only allowed, it is highly
encouraged.
>We would have done true justice to the *vEda*-s (and hence to
ourselves)
>only when the restrictions are properly followed. "*aachaara heenam
na
>punanti vEdaaH*" (even the *vEda* doesn't uplift those that don't
follow the
>restrictions.)
>
>*vEdOnityamadheeyataam*
>-Syam
>
>On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:34 AM, vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <
>vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Satish and advaita request list,
>>
>> Sorry but I am not entirely clear.
>>
>> Are women prohibited from even listenning to and understanding a
pravachan
>> of Vedanta? By Vedas do we mean Vedanta? ie. Is even listenning and
>> understanding the philosophy of the Upanishads is prohibited to
them??
>>
>> Chanting is difficult for most people and so it is understandable
that
>> there are restrictions on who does the chanting. However, vedanta
>> (pravachans on Upanishads) seem to be widely available for all to
listen to,
>> understand and enjoy these days.
>>
>> Surely there is no restriction on a woman attending a talk on the
>> upanishads??? or even imbibing that learning in her life?????
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Vijaya.
>> ----Original Message----
>> From: satisharigela at yahoo.com
>> Date: 23/09/2009 11:21
>> To: <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>
>> Subj: Re: women reading the Vedas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so
long
>> >as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>> >them.
>>
>> I have tried in vain to understand why some people insist that some
groups
>> should learn the veda when it is clarified in hundreds of works
that they
>> are not meant to say the veda.
>>
>> There are like thousand spiritual options for these groups(like
women
>> shUdra-s) mentioned in the purANa-s and Agama-s. Why this fixation
with
>> chanting only that which is forbidden and leave all the other
options that
>> the tradition provides?
>>
>> To me this is simply a case of attraction towards that which is
forbidden.
>> Like in the story where "the doctor advises the patient not to
think about a
>> monkey... and for the next couple of hours the patient could only
think of
>> the monkey". :)
>>
>> >Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>>
>> Somebody else might feel puruShamedha is ok in today's world based
on some
>> vague references and ritually slaughter the guy next door...So you
or me
>> feeling something does not make it right. He will be sent to jail
for man
>> slaughter...so is it with women saying the veda-s..
>>
>> I find it really hard to understand this:...why when many many
religious
>> options are given and said do not chant the veda-s but you are free
to
>> follow any of those thousand options....still people yearn for the
one
>> things which is forbidden leaving all legitimate options???
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/23/09, vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <
>> vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <vijaya1.
kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 4:14 AM
>>
>>
>> Dear Advaita request list,
>>
>> Sorry to go back to a few weeks ago. But there was a question
>> regarding whether women should read the Vedas or not.
>>
>> I have been told by a source that the word 'STRI' can be split to
SA +
>> TRI meaning one wedded to the three gunas. This could refer to one
who
>> is physically male or female.
>>
>> So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so
long
>> as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>> them.
>>
>> Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>>
>> Also there have been instances of Sages teaching women the Vedas
and
>> of women being well versed in the Vedas.
>>
>> Women brahmacharinis exist in may hindu organistations doing
excellent
>> work from a good understanding of the hindu religion.
>>
>> Vijaya Kambhampati.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Internet Security tips and offers from Tiscali -
>> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security
>>
_______________________________________________________________________
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>>
>>
>> Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????????
>??????????????????? ??????????????????? ??
>
>Best Regards,
>Syam
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:40:49 -0400
>From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>To: "vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk"
> <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>, A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
> <f65008470909230840s9d116e3vde12a5c879777596 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Vijayaji,
>
>*Women of the three varnas are not prohibited from knowing let alone
>listening to the Vedas.* When I say knowing I do not mean learning to
chant
>by rote. There are methods of knowing the Veda and its meaning. It
fact in
>the bygone days the women knew of as much Veda by being around
without
>chanting it themselves.
>
>In modern times due to the play of Kali that manifests in the
emphasis of
>secularism, the varnas are branded in bad light and the division is
>obliterated by painting with one color of so called equality. I have
sought
>to argue in this forum the total idiocy of such secularism. This
modern day
>practice has obfuscated each jeeva of his/her own uniqueness and
motivated
>him/her to be in tandem with others as being its sole emphasis. This
has
>resulted in the inability of each one to play his/her own unique
role.
>
>Vijayaji, *You are Brahmam and would always remain so. Learning or
not
>learning the Veda would not alter the fact of who you really are*.
Whether
>one learns veda or not learn it, if he/she does not realize who
he/she is
>and what role he/she plays in this jagat, then in such ignorance
whatever
>that person does in this janma would be quite meaningless and be a
waste of
>time.
>
>My contention that the Gayathri manthra is not to be chanted by women
should
>be seen in this light. Gayathri manthra motivates the intellect and
good
>only for men and would hinder women in the maanasic pravaaham that
they have
>to generate in life. Just imagine if Seetha had accepted Raama's
contention
>that there is no such thing as a golden deer! It is to the credit of
the
>maanasic pravaaham of Seetha that Raama who contended that the golden
deer
>is a maaya was himself launched in pursuit of that very maaya! If
that
>power of maaya did not affect Raama then there is no play, no story.
>
>If men were to be equally forbidden from chanting the Gayathri
manthra then
>all men would turn to be unintellectual and be classified as Sudhras.
No
>society can thrive with such thaamasic deluge. In the same way if
all men
>were to chant the Gayathri then there would not be any Sudhra and the
>society would turn famished and become skeletal.
>
>If you fall prey to secularism and would contend that there is no
>distinction between man and woman and that anybody can do anything as
she/he
>pleases then the play one would witness will be chaotic and
meaningless.
>Bhagavan will incarnate then to set it right.
>
>On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:34 AM, vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <
>vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Satish and advaita request list,
>>
>> Sorry but I am not entirely clear.
>>
>> Are women prohibited from even listenning to and understanding a
pravachan
>> of Vedanta? By Vedas do we mean Vedanta? ie. Is even listenning and
>> understanding the philosophy of the Upanishads is prohibited to
them??
>>
>> Chanting is difficult for most people and so it is understandable
that
>> there are restrictions on who does the chanting. However, vedanta
>> (pravachans on Upanishads) seem to be widely available for all to
listen to,
>> understand and enjoy these days.
>>
>> Surely there is no restriction on a woman attending a talk on the
>> upanishads??? or even imbibing that learning in her life?????
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Vijaya.
>> ----Original Message----
>> From: satisharigela at yahoo.com
>> Date: 23/09/2009 11:21
>> To: <vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk>
>> Subj: Re: women reading the Vedas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so
long
>> >as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>> >them.
>>
>> I have tried in vain to understand why some people insist that some
groups
>> should learn the veda when it is clarified in hundreds of works
that they
>> are not meant to say the veda.
>>
>> There are like thousand spiritual options for these groups(like
women
>> shUdra-s) mentioned in the purANa-s and Agama-s. Why this fixation
with
>> chanting only that which is forbidden and leave all the other
options that
>> the tradition provides?
>>
>> To me this is simply a case of attraction towards that which is
forbidden.
>> Like in the story where "the doctor advises the patient not to
think about a
>> monkey... and for the next couple of hours the patient could only
think of
>> the monkey". :)
>>
>> >Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>>
>> Somebody else might feel puruShamedha is ok in today's world based
on some
>> vague references and ritually slaughter the guy next door...So you
or me
>> feeling something does not make it right. He will be sent to jail
for man
>> slaughter...so is it with women saying the veda-s..
>>
>> I find it really hard to understand this:...why when many many
religious
>> options are given and said do not chant the veda-s but you are free
to
>> follow any of those thousand options....still people yearn for the
one
>> things which is forbidden leaving all legitimate options???
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/23/09, vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <
>> vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: vijaya1.kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk <vijaya1.
kambhampati at tiscali.co.uk
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] women reading the Vedas
>> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 4:14 AM
>>
>>
>> Dear Advaita request list,
>>
>> Sorry to go back to a few weeks ago. But there was a question
>> regarding whether women should read the Vedas or not.
>>
>> I have been told by a source that the word 'STRI' can be split to
SA +
>> TRI meaning one wedded to the three gunas. This could refer to one
who
>> is physically male or female.
>>
>> So vedas can be read by one who is physically male or female so
long
>> as they have full consciousness of the play of the three gunas
within
>> them.
>>
>> Thats what I feel is OK in todays world.
>>
>> Also there have been instances of Sages teaching women the Vedas
and
>> of women being well versed in the Vedas.
>>
>> Women brahmacharinis exist in may hindu organistations doing
excellent
>> work from a good understanding of the hindu religion.
>>
>> Vijaya Kambhampati.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Internet Security tips and offers from Tiscali -
>> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security
>>
_______________________________________________________________________
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>>
>>
>> Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
>To unsubscribe or change your options:
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>
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>
>
>End of Advaita-l Digest, Vol 62, Issue 22
>*****************************************
>
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