[Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals ofHinduism-7 (III)

[Michael Shepherd]

Anbu ji

On a more serious note :

As an 'outside' observer, I would say that the immeasurable contribution to
world  humanity of Hinduism is -- or should be or could be -- in the area of
rebirth, karma, prahabda and vasana. To the individual, it bestows
dignity -- the knowing that we cannot 'shift the blame' on outside
influences and situation, but must take full responsibility for our actions
and their fruits (even if no-one yet has come back to tell us this from
their past lives except a few avatars); and from all, it must evoke
compassion for all : we are all in the same boat, and the same self lives in
all.

Imagine if the proponents of the great Russian and other novels of the 19th
century had been armed with such self-knowledge ! Where would Dostoevsky
have been ? (Though one suspects that Tolstoy had the innate knowledge.)

Curiously, a statistic was published only a couple of weeks ago, that the
major proportion of the West, irrespective of faith, believe in rebirth !
Those secret Hindu missionaries have worked their wonders !

Michael :)

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
sivam2
Sent: 13 September 2009 23:36
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals
ofHinduism-7 (III)



Quote: "Or are you more eager to pronounce judgment than I...?  But then,
that is
your upbringing..."

Sure!  And I did it on the merit!  I am glad you are in agreement with me!

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Anbu ji
>
> From what you say, we seem to be in fundamental agreement..  'we are a
> product of our own self'.
>
> Or are you more eager to pronounce judgment than I...?  But then, that is
> your upbringing...
>
> Michael :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> sivam2
> Sent: 13 September 2009 16:14
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals
> ofHinduism -7 (III)
>
>
>
> Michaelji,
>
> Quote: "Your interesting generalisations and over-simplifications contain
> some valuable half-truths, in my opinion."
>
> Thanks for your eagerness in pronouncing judgements!  It comes from the
> ingrainment of abrahamic religions in their understanding of one birth
> only.
>
> *First and foremost understanding of a jeeva irrespective of his varna is
> that he is a bhOktha and a karmi.  That is all he is! *
>
> No matter whether one is an emperor or a chaprasi all he does in life is
> sometimes enjoy and most of the time suffer in many differnt ways!
>
> These karmam and bhOgam constitute his karmaphala of the previous births.
> In other words you are born here to enjoy and suffer period. Nothing more
> and nothing less.  *You are not created by a whimsical God.  You are a
> product of your own self.
> *
> Remember karma is painful and forms part of his suffering.  What you enjoy
> and suffer is of course through this body (*actually the three bodies one
> possesses viz. sthoola, sookshma and kaaraNa sarirams) and these bodies
are
> guna born.*  The nature of the guna in these bodies enable the
> corresponding
> bhogam and karma.  The particular body is thus fashioned as one's body for
> him to reside as a 'gift' if you please not at random but as one's
> karmaphala by the Dhaatha viz. Easwara.  Residing in the body made of guna
> and driven by his samskaara one strives to find his purushartha.
>
> Look through this scheme at the examples you cited (such as a person
> working
> in an assembly line etc.) and perhaps then you would understand the many
> ways one enjoys, suffers and perfects his being.
>
> The salient features of the guna conditioning of the four varnas were
given
> by me but they are not exhaustive.  A 'perfection' is achieved by a potter
> or an atomic scientist or an enterpreneur in their own field of endeavour
> and also by a Brahmana as a jeevan mukhtha.  Such are our opportunities!
>
> It is true that people try to don the hats of more than one varna.  Surely
> we Hindus hold that you can do what you like!  But we point out that there
> is no impediment in being one's own self but there are lots of impediments
> in being someone else and a person also commits transgressions and the
> consequences of them follow in this or the next birth.  This comes under
> dharma and adharma concepts.
>
> Yes sir, *YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU LIKE BUT THE OUTCOME IN TERMS OF ENJOYMENT
> WILL ALWAYS BE THE SAME AND YOUR SUFFERING WILL IN NO WAY INCREASE OR
> DECREASE BY YOUR CHOICE!*
>
> *What I am saying is that such options to weild the roles of other varnas
> are not productive in terms of karma and bhogam that one is destined
> with.*(Karthur aagnyayaa praapyathE phalam, karma kim param karma
> thajjadam).
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Michael Shepherd <
> michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Anbu ji,
> >
> > Your interesting generalisations and over-simplifications contain some
> > valuable half-truths, in my opinion.
> >
> > They are only half-truths, because they ignore the fact that atmabrahma
> is
> > unlimited... every religion, every good educational system, every
> well-run
> > industry, every good family life, tell us this..varna of birth is the
> > mysterious grace of own atmabrahma.
> >
> > And because of this, all attachments to varna should be surrendered : as
> > you
> > say, it is attachment to 'I am a downtrodden shudra because of those
> wicked
> > capitalists who exploit my labour' that lead to revolutions based on
> > removing the vaisya class completely...
> >
> > Take three 'shudra' working alongside each other on an assembly line..
Mr
> A
> > hates his job; does it just well enough not to be sacked, so he can take
> > home his money and spend it on drink -- or be, a good family man
despite.
> > Mr B is the typical 'happy labourer' : he enjoys doing his job well,
> > doesn't
> > envy his boss who lives in a big house but with a bickering family., But
> > karma has surprises in for Mr B : he gives such attention to his work,
> that
> > he is the one most likely to suggest an improvement in manufacturing
> > techniques and design; he may get appointed foreman, then teacher of the
> > apprentices; perhaps a textbook in time; or perhaps out of frustratuion,
> he
> > sets up as an excellent vaisya who knows how to care for his workers..
> > Mr C also does his job carefully; but he has a lively open mind; he
> learns
> > about the economic set-up of his firm and so on; he acquires all the
> > knowledge to become a good vaisya; he may be called upon to join
regional
> > and national committees because of his acquired wisdom. He is the one
> most
> > likely, in his vanaprastha, to become an acharya -- as we see with
> certain
> > mambers of the diaspora in the US..
> >
> > Yes, the guna play a large part in character; but there are those who
are
> > 'veiled by avidya and driven by inertia' as you put it, in all the varna
> > these days ?
> >
> > And I agree that since the 19th century at least, Western society would
> > have
> > done better to understand karma, dharma, varna, ashrama, and much else,
> > from
> > Hinduism... OK, no more jokes about the need for floods of Hindu
> > missionaries to educate the West... :)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> > sivam2
> > Sent: 13 September 2009 03:30
> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals of
> > Hinduism -7 (III)
> >
> >
> >
> > Aum
> >
> > *NOTES ON THE SEVENTH MUSING (**III**)*
> >
> > Now let’s try to understand some of the characteristics of the four
> Varnas.
> >
> > The Thamasa Guna has an opaque character indicating the nature of the
> > Sudhras. Those possessed of it see things different from what they are.
> In
> > other words, *they are veiled by avidya and they are driven by inertia*.
> > (More on Avidya in subsequent Musings.) It does not mean that they
cannot
> > know or they cannot do anything right. Quite the contrary. They can know
> > and
> > do excellent things but only at the bidding of others.
> >
> >    *The exquisite carvings of our cave temples and sculptures are done
by
> > Sudhras. Any evidence of greatness of any society be it in the great
> > temples
> > of     India or the Pyramids of Egypt or the great wall of China, were
> all
> > built by Sudras, but they were told to do so. They do not have the
> > initiative and *they always get carried away*. *They band together*
among
> > themselves. The modern day union leaders exploit this feature to
organize
> > them, collect subscriptions from them use this banding feature to
extract
> > money from the employers. (Both the employer and the union leader belong
> to
> > Vaisya Varna. See below.)
> >
> >    *A Sudhra is the one who will build a great dam across a river for
the
> > benefit of humanity or will set fire to a bus full of college girls just
> > because a certain politician told them to do so. They are a tremendous
> > power
> > by themselves, but because of their *lack of discrimination*, *they are
> > exploited* or harvested by others - in very large measure by the
Vaisyas.
> >
> > The opposite is the Sathwa Guna that has a transparent character
> indicating
> > the nature of Brahmins.  Satwa Guna generates knowledge and wisdom.
> >
> >    *Because of the clarity of Satwa Guna the Brahmins can see things as
> > they are. Seeing things as they are is called Vidya (More on it later.)
> > This
> > makes them feel pacific, at worst resigned and at best quite content.
> >
> >    *Though *they have initiative*, they seldom use it for their own
> > advantage. They are adept in using the initiative on behalf of a
yajamana
> > who is either a Kshathriya or another Brahmana or sometimes even a
> Vaisya.
> >
> >    *They lack materialist pursuit even though they are capable of
winning
> a
> > world or amassing wealth but would easily sell their prowess for a fee.
> > Such
> > is their contentment!
> >
> >    *They are *highly independent* and therefore are incohesive among
> > themselves in terms of a material pursuit. However they would be seen to
> > band together for spiritual pursuit. (This is because Agni Devatha is
> their
> > spiritual counterpart of the Heaven and they are all united by Agni).
> >
> > Now we will deal with Kshathriyas and Vaisyas, who are driven by Rajo
> Guna.
> >
> >    *A Kshathriya is made of Rajo Guna with Sathwa Guna as the underlying
> > factor. This makes them hold on to a view as sacrosant, otherwise known
> as
> > truth or Sathyam and would enforce it by his command and would even die
> for
> > it. Thus he is a *good keeper of the word and therefore be a reliable
> body
> > guard, a Rakshaka and a King*.
> >
> >    *“Bahu Rajanya krithaha”, says Purusha Sooktham. Kshathriya rose from
> > the arm of Virat signifying valour and strength.
> >
> >    *At the same time, his passions signified by Rajo Guna make him a
> great
> > family man and *man of society* and an increaser and protector of the
> > tribe.
> > He is witty and charming and a man given to partying and fun. He *likes
> > limelight*. He *respects hierarchy* and enforces them. Thus his
> protective
> > abilities reach the world of manes and that of Gods.
> >
> >    *Because of of his Guna a Kshathriya *seeks clarity* and would be a
> good
> > judge. Because of Sathwa Guna he likes to be *associated with Brahmanas*
> > and
> > a great protector of them indeed. Thus the maxim “Asathoma Sat Gamaya,
> > Thamasoma Jyothirgamaya, Mrithyorma Amriutham Gamaya” would greatly
apply
> > to
> > the Kshathriyas though the maxim is common to all.
> >
> > Now, who is a Vaisya?
> >
> >    *A Vaisya is made of Rajo Guna with Thamasa Guna as the underlying
> > factor. Thus he has an opposite character to the Kshathriyas. This means
> he
> > does *not hold anything sacrosant*. That is why a Vaisya, a businessman
> > would not hold on to anything as value but keep trading them in order to
> > increase wealth.
> >
> >    *A Vaisya, because of lack of passion, *never seeks limelight* and
> > *would
> > not enter into any controversy*. He is always positive and thus *prone
to
> > mislead others. *
> >
> >    *A Vaisya besides being a good businessman, by the play of his Guna,
> is
> > well suited to be a diplomat or a spy and is capable of doings things
> that
> > are to be done in discreet or stealth or behind the curtain.
> >
> >    *A Vaisya because of the Rajo Guna seeks the company and audience of
> > Kshathriyas but only for the purpose of increasing his wealth. He is a
> good
> > ally of the Kshathriya for he provides the Kshathriya with the
> > wherewithals.
> > He *generates immense wealth* under the protection of a powerful
> Kshathriya
> > and he is prone to cheat a weak king.
> >
> >    *Because of the underlying Thamo Guna a *Vaisya is associated with
the
> > Sudhra *whom he persuades to labour hard and produce. Because of this
> Guna
> > *he
> > is stingy and exploitative*.  Lying and misrepresentation are his
> prowess!
> > They are the modern day politicians.  The French call them the
> bourgeoisie.
> >
> >    *A Vaisya has a spiritual side that appeases the Gods to increase his
> > wealth. Thus he is a *donor for temples* and for the cultivation of the
> > *music
> > and the dance *that are associated with Gods and wealth.
> >
> > Thus you will know the difference between a man who is less impressive
> but
> > has a lot of money in his pocket and a man who is well dressed up and
> talks
> > bravely but has little in his pocket. The former does not enjoy what he
> has
> > and the latter enjoys despite not having any. The underlying Thamo Guna
> or
> > Satwa Guna causes this as the case may be of those driven by Rajo Guna.
> > This
> > is the difference between a Vaisya and a Kshathriya.
> >
> > There is an important aspect of the Guna play. *A person born in one
> Varna
> > can follow the Dharma of what can be termed as a lower Varna but not in
> the
> > reverse direction.* This is by taking Sathwam to be higher than the
> Thamas,
> > though in terms of wordly needs both serve their purposes and therefore
> are
> > equal. The higher and lower classification would be only in terms of
> > knowledge of Reality such as transparency and opaqueness of the
> Anthakarana
> > or mind. A Brahmana can therefore follow the Dharmas of other Varnas
with
> > ease i.e. he can follow Kshathriya Dharma, Vaisya Dharma or even Sudhra
> > Dharma, a Kshathriya, likewise can follow Vaisya Dharma or Sudhra Dharma
> > but
> > not Brahmana Dharma, a Vaisya can follow Sudhra Dharma but not
Kshathriya
> > Dharma or Brahmana Dharma and Sudhra can only follow his own Dharma and
> not
> > of anyone else.  This is due to the play of Shakthi the source of the
> Guna.
> > This is because the manifest Shakthi will always degenerate.  That is
its
> > nature.
> >
> > (to be continued)
> >
> > Sri Gurubyo Namaha
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