[Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals ofHinduism -7 (III)

[Anbu sivam2]

Quote: "Or are you more eager to pronounce judgment than I...?  But then,
that is
your upbringing..."

Sure!  And I did it on the merit!  I am glad you are in agreement with me!

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Anbu ji
>
> From what you say, we seem to be in fundamental agreement..  'we are a
> product of our own self'.
>
> Or are you more eager to pronounce judgment than I...?  But then, that is
> your upbringing...
>
> Michael :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> sivam2
> Sent: 13 September 2009 16:14
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals
> ofHinduism -7 (III)
>
>
>
> Michaelji,
>
> Quote: "Your interesting generalisations and over-simplifications contain
> some valuable half-truths, in my opinion."
>
> Thanks for your eagerness in pronouncing judgements!  It comes from the
> ingrainment of abrahamic religions in their understanding of one birth
> only.
>
> *First and foremost understanding of a jeeva irrespective of his varna is
> that he is a bhOktha and a karmi.  That is all he is! *
>
> No matter whether one is an emperor or a chaprasi all he does in life is
> sometimes enjoy and most of the time suffer in many differnt ways!
>
> These karmam and bhOgam constitute his karmaphala of the previous births.
> In other words you are born here to enjoy and suffer period. Nothing more
> and nothing less.  *You are not created by a whimsical God.  You are a
> product of your own self.
> *
> Remember karma is painful and forms part of his suffering.  What you enjoy
> and suffer is of course through this body (*actually the three bodies one
> possesses viz. sthoola, sookshma and kaaraNa sarirams) and these bodies are
> guna born.*  The nature of the guna in these bodies enable the
> corresponding
> bhogam and karma.  The particular body is thus fashioned as one's body for
> him to reside as a 'gift' if you please not at random but as one's
> karmaphala by the Dhaatha viz. Easwara.  Residing in the body made of guna
> and driven by his samskaara one strives to find his purushartha.
>
> Look through this scheme at the examples you cited (such as a person
> working
> in an assembly line etc.) and perhaps then you would understand the many
> ways one enjoys, suffers and perfects his being.
>
> The salient features of the guna conditioning of the four varnas were given
> by me but they are not exhaustive.  A 'perfection' is achieved by a potter
> or an atomic scientist or an enterpreneur in their own field of endeavour
> and also by a Brahmana as a jeevan mukhtha.  Such are our opportunities!
>
> It is true that people try to don the hats of more than one varna.  Surely
> we Hindus hold that you can do what you like!  But we point out that there
> is no impediment in being one's own self but there are lots of impediments
> in being someone else and a person also commits transgressions and the
> consequences of them follow in this or the next birth.  This comes under
> dharma and adharma concepts.
>
> Yes sir, *YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU LIKE BUT THE OUTCOME IN TERMS OF ENJOYMENT
> WILL ALWAYS BE THE SAME AND YOUR SUFFERING WILL IN NO WAY INCREASE OR
> DECREASE BY YOUR CHOICE!*
>
> *What I am saying is that such options to weild the roles of other varnas
> are not productive in terms of karma and bhogam that one is destined
> with.*(Karthur aagnyayaa praapyathE phalam, karma kim param karma
> thajjadam).
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Michael Shepherd <
> michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Anbu ji,
> >
> > Your interesting generalisations and over-simplifications contain some
> > valuable half-truths, in my opinion.
> >
> > They are only half-truths, because they ignore the fact that atmabrahma
> is
> > unlimited... every religion, every good educational system, every
> well-run
> > industry, every good family life, tell us this..varna of birth is the
> > mysterious grace of own atmabrahma.
> >
> > And because of this, all attachments to varna should be surrendered : as
> > you
> > say, it is attachment to 'I am a downtrodden shudra because of those
> wicked
> > capitalists who exploit my labour' that lead to revolutions based on
> > removing the vaisya class completely...
> >
> > Take three 'shudra' working alongside each other on an assembly line.. Mr
> A
> > hates his job; does it just well enough not to be sacked, so he can take
> > home his money and spend it on drink -- or be, a good family man despite.
> > Mr B is the typical 'happy labourer' : he enjoys doing his job well,
> > doesn't
> > envy his boss who lives in a big house but with a bickering family., But
> > karma has surprises in for Mr B : he gives such attention to his work,
> that
> > he is the one most likely to suggest an improvement in manufacturing
> > techniques and design; he may get appointed foreman, then teacher of the
> > apprentices; perhaps a textbook in time; or perhaps out of frustratuion,
> he
> > sets up as an excellent vaisya who knows how to care for his workers..
> > Mr C also does his job carefully; but he has a lively open mind; he
> learns
> > about the economic set-up of his firm and so on; he acquires all the
> > knowledge to become a good vaisya; he may be called upon to join regional
> > and national committees because of his acquired wisdom. He is the one
> most
> > likely, in his vanaprastha, to become an acharya -- as we see with
> certain
> > mambers of the diaspora in the US..
> >
> > Yes, the guna play a large part in character; but there are those who are
> > 'veiled by avidya and driven by inertia' as you put it, in all the varna
> > these days ?
> >
> > And I agree that since the 19th century at least, Western society would
> > have
> > done better to understand karma, dharma, varna, ashrama, and much else,
> > from
> > Hinduism... OK, no more jokes about the need for floods of Hindu
> > missionaries to educate the West... :)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> > sivam2
> > Sent: 13 September 2009 03:30
> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Notes on the Musings on the Fundamentals of
> > Hinduism -7 (III)
> >
> >
> >
> > Aum
> >
> > *NOTES ON THE SEVENTH MUSING (**III**)*
> >
> > Now let’s try to understand some of the characteristics of the four
> Varnas.
> >
> > The Thamasa Guna has an opaque character indicating the nature of the
> > Sudhras. Those possessed of it see things different from what they are.
> In
> > other words, *they are veiled by avidya and they are driven by inertia*.
> > (More on Avidya in subsequent Musings.) It does not mean that they cannot
> > know or they cannot do anything right. Quite the contrary. They can know
> > and
> > do excellent things but only at the bidding of others.
> >
> >    *The exquisite carvings of our cave temples and sculptures are done by
> > Sudhras. Any evidence of greatness of any society be it in the great
> > temples
> > of     India or the Pyramids of Egypt or the great wall of China, were
> all
> > built by Sudras, but they were told to do so. They do not have the
> > initiative and *they always get carried away*. *They band together* among
> > themselves. The modern day union leaders exploit this feature to organize
> > them, collect subscriptions from them use this banding feature to extract
> > money from the employers. (Both the employer and the union leader belong
> to
> > Vaisya Varna. See below.)
> >
> >    *A Sudhra is the one who will build a great dam across a river for the
> > benefit of humanity or will set fire to a bus full of college girls just
> > because a certain politician told them to do so. They are a tremendous
> > power
> > by themselves, but because of their *lack of discrimination*, *they are
> > exploited* or harvested by others - in very large measure by the Vaisyas.
> >
> > The opposite is the Sathwa Guna that has a transparent character
> indicating
> > the nature of Brahmins.  Satwa Guna generates knowledge and wisdom.
> >
> >    *Because of the clarity of Satwa Guna the Brahmins can see things as
> > they are. Seeing things as they are is called Vidya (More on it later.)
> > This
> > makes them feel pacific, at worst resigned and at best quite content.
> >
> >    *Though *they have initiative*, they seldom use it for their own
> > advantage. They are adept in using the initiative on behalf of a yajamana
> > who is either a Kshathriya or another Brahmana or sometimes even a
> Vaisya.
> >
> >    *They lack materialist pursuit even though they are capable of winning
> a
> > world or amassing wealth but would easily sell their prowess for a fee.
> > Such
> > is their contentment!
> >
> >    *They are *highly independent* and therefore are incohesive among
> > themselves in terms of a material pursuit. However they would be seen to
> > band together for spiritual pursuit. (This is because Agni Devatha is
> their
> > spiritual counterpart of the Heaven and they are all united by Agni).
> >
> > Now we will deal with Kshathriyas and Vaisyas, who are driven by Rajo
> Guna.
> >
> >    *A Kshathriya is made of Rajo Guna with Sathwa Guna as the underlying
> > factor. This makes them hold on to a view as sacrosant, otherwise known
> as
> > truth or Sathyam and would enforce it by his command and would even die
> for
> > it. Thus he is a *good keeper of the word and therefore be a reliable
> body
> > guard, a Rakshaka and a King*.
> >
> >    *“Bahu Rajanya krithaha”, says Purusha Sooktham. Kshathriya rose from
> > the arm of Virat signifying valour and strength.
> >
> >    *At the same time, his passions signified by Rajo Guna make him a
> great
> > family man and *man of society* and an increaser and protector of the
> > tribe.
> > He is witty and charming and a man given to partying and fun. He *likes
> > limelight*. He *respects hierarchy* and enforces them. Thus his
> protective
> > abilities reach the world of manes and that of Gods.
> >
> >    *Because of of his Guna a Kshathriya *seeks clarity* and would be a
> good
> > judge. Because of Sathwa Guna he likes to be *associated with Brahmanas*
> > and
> > a great protector of them indeed. Thus the maxim “Asathoma Sat Gamaya,
> > Thamasoma Jyothirgamaya, Mrithyorma Amriutham Gamaya” would greatly apply
> > to
> > the Kshathriyas though the maxim is common to all.
> >
> > Now, who is a Vaisya?
> >
> >    *A Vaisya is made of Rajo Guna with Thamasa Guna as the underlying
> > factor. Thus he has an opposite character to the Kshathriyas. This means
> he
> > does *not hold anything sacrosant*. That is why a Vaisya, a businessman
> > would not hold on to anything as value but keep trading them in order to
> > increase wealth.
> >
> >    *A Vaisya, because of lack of passion, *never seeks limelight* and
> > *would
> > not enter into any controversy*. He is always positive and thus *prone to
> > mislead others. *
> >
> >    *A Vaisya besides being a good businessman, by the play of his Guna,
> is
> > well suited to be a diplomat or a spy and is capable of doings things
> that
> > are to be done in discreet or stealth or behind the curtain.
> >
> >    *A Vaisya because of the Rajo Guna seeks the company and audience of
> > Kshathriyas but only for the purpose of increasing his wealth. He is a
> good
> > ally of the Kshathriya for he provides the Kshathriya with the
> > wherewithals.
> > He *generates immense wealth* under the protection of a powerful
> Kshathriya
> > and he is prone to cheat a weak king.
> >
> >    *Because of the underlying Thamo Guna a *Vaisya is associated with the
> > Sudhra *whom he persuades to labour hard and produce. Because of this
> Guna
> > *he
> > is stingy and exploitative*.  Lying and misrepresentation are his
> prowess!
> > They are the modern day politicians.  The French call them the
> bourgeoisie.
> >
> >    *A Vaisya has a spiritual side that appeases the Gods to increase his
> > wealth. Thus he is a *donor for temples* and for the cultivation of the
> > *music
> > and the dance *that are associated with Gods and wealth.
> >
> > Thus you will know the difference between a man who is less impressive
> but
> > has a lot of money in his pocket and a man who is well dressed up and
> talks
> > bravely but has little in his pocket. The former does not enjoy what he
> has
> > and the latter enjoys despite not having any. The underlying Thamo Guna
> or
> > Satwa Guna causes this as the case may be of those driven by Rajo Guna.
> > This
> > is the difference between a Vaisya and a Kshathriya.
> >
> > There is an important aspect of the Guna play. *A person born in one
> Varna
> > can follow the Dharma of what can be termed as a lower Varna but not in
> the
> > reverse direction.* This is by taking Sathwam to be higher than the
> Thamas,
> > though in terms of wordly needs both serve their purposes and therefore
> are
> > equal. The higher and lower classification would be only in terms of
> > knowledge of Reality such as transparency and opaqueness of the
> Anthakarana
> > or mind. A Brahmana can therefore follow the Dharmas of other Varnas with
> > ease i.e. he can follow Kshathriya Dharma, Vaisya Dharma or even Sudhra
> > Dharma, a Kshathriya, likewise can follow Vaisya Dharma or Sudhra Dharma
> > but
> > not Brahmana Dharma, a Vaisya can follow Sudhra Dharma but not Kshathriya
> > Dharma or Brahmana Dharma and Sudhra can only follow his own Dharma and
> not
> > of anyone else.  This is due to the play of Shakthi the source of the
> Guna.
> > This is because the manifest Shakthi will always degenerate.  That is its
> > nature.
> >
> > (to be continued)
> >
> > Sri Gurubyo Namaha
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