[Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Michaelji,

You were asking whether we can see a mutual support -- each day -- between these states and  if we know that it may aid our sadhana. I guess you are trying to find out whether the transition from one state  to the other is abrupt or smooth and also whether the transitions are voluntary or involuntary. 

Let me assume that it is so  All the states are co-existing in the sense that when we close our eyes the faculty of seeing is off and our imaginations/dreaming may start. We can still hear and if someone calls us or touches us, we respond. While sleeping the other faculties too become dormant and we have lesser interruptions in dreaming and we will wake up only if we hear a loud noise or in any such event. At that stage it is more a voluntary action to go to sleep ie. to go to that dream state  unless our body is extremely tired and speep is forced upon us. However if we are yogi and have practised thought control then we may not see
dreams while sleeping  and though our body will get rest yet we shall remain alert.

But going from the dream state to the deep sleep state is involuntary for the ordinay people. A Yogi can probably control the deep sleep in the sense what sleeping  means to us, the ordinary people and remain alert. I suppose when the deep sleep becomes voluntary we are surely on the way to Turiya. I think to observe the continuity of the all the three states is possible only to a yogi and once that is achieved evrything is achieved.

Regards,

Sunil

--- On Tue, 10/20/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 3:36 PM

I meant saakshin !!!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Michael
Shepherd
Sent: 20 October 2009 22:06
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
supportive



Praveen ji,

Thank you. There are several arguments that could be adduced for the
simultaneity of the three -- or rather four -- states, I suggest :
They are present together in our ordinary memory;
They are present together in the present moment, which is the only
experience;
They are present together in turiya, which is our eternal gift;
They are present together in siksha, the eternal witness of the self.

So surely they are mutually supportive in our sadhana !

The pandits may correct me on this, but taijasa as the dreaming self
composed of light is so close a word to tejasa as the fire of celestial
splendour... imagination at all its levels. Sanskrit and Hinduism is badly
served by translation into English with its familiar associations !

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Praveen
R. Bhat
Sent: 20 October 2009 11:47
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
supportive



Hari Om, Michael-ji,

I'm not sure if your 'dreams' are realized in this reply of mine, but
I'm just trying to return to your original question. :)

The question reminds me of when four of us from this list visited
Swami Paramananda Bharati associated with Sringeri Math at Bangalore.
Among our questions he did answer something pertaining to avasthA
trayA. He said that all the three states are 'actually existing
simultaneously'. Now, as a background, let me add that Swamiji was a
scientist in his purvAshrama.

There was another scientist who took to sannyAsa in Ramakrishna order,
whose name I forget. But some months or maybe years after the above
darshana, I came across an article online written by this Ramakrishna
ashram swamiji about avasthA trayA, as published in Vedanta Kesari. It
was full of details of how the avasthA changes from one state to the
other, at what intervals, what are the wavelengths and other
relations. I remember skimming through the same but lost the bookmark.
I'll try to hunt the same online and post it if I do find it. Maybe he
wrote something that will help realize your 'dreams'. :)

brahmArpaNamastu,
--Praveen R. Bhat
/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known!
[Br.Up. 4.5.15] */


On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Michael Shepherd
<michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Hey guys --
>
> All very interesting, but way off my original question.. each day, we all
go through these three 'states'.
> We've read our Gaudapadakarika, I assume; Shankara has told us that all is
illusion under Brahman's powers of veiling and revealing. I'm asking whether
we can see a mutual support -- each day -- between these states which if
recognised, may aid our sadhana.
>
> Michael
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