[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: 'Satyasya Satyam..' of the Upanishad explained in the Bhagavatam

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

Namaste Subbuji,
Sir, somehow, somewhere, I thought you implied through the Tait reference
support for introducing pratibhasika satta as distinct from vyavaharika.
Otherwise, I agree with what you are saying - there is a necessity to
accept the existential status of vyavahara - how else to explain our
conversation. That is clear. The issue between us and perhaps off topic, is
defining what is meant by existential status. Is it other than or different
from the illusory nature of pratibhasika satta. You say, yes because of the
difference Sankara is drawing between waking water and dream water,  I am
saying, weak defense, anything better? Just to be clear.

Regardless, I found your citations interesting:
//(In BS) 3.2.4, Shankara says:  Nor should it be concluded that the world
of waking made of ether, etc. elements is* not absolutely real.* We have
eminently established in BSB 2.1.14 that the entire world (including the
dream and sleep) is illusory: māyāmātra. Prior to the realization of
Brahman, the waking world remains in an orderly fashion. The world of
dream, though, is negated everyday upon waking. //
--This IS a fair defense of pratibhasika satta but I read it as two
different drsti-s rather than states.
--What does Shankara mean where he says the waking world should be taken as
'*absolutely real'? *This might make sense if avidya is simply
non-recognition.

Then in BSB 2.1.14, //: The distinction between the Enjoyer and the
experienced inert world was stated as a matter of vyāvahārika//
--mustn't that be taken as refuting any kind of avidya-lesa? Even
sAkshi/sAkshya distinction is avidya and subject to change and all the
other limits of duality.
--off topic and needn't require a reply

Lastly, your comment on Gita bhasya 13.2 saying, //There are two
requirements mandatory for liberation: 1. the knowledge that one is
distinct from the inert prakriti and 2. that this* prakriti is
non-existent. //*
*--'prakriti is non-existent'  as a requirement? please discuss though also
off topic *

*🙏🙏🙏 *





Yes sir, I recognize that on occasion Bhasyakara will acknowledge
vyavarharika as provisionally real FOR THE IGNORANT MIND. And indeed, who
could deny the fears, hopes and desires that motivate us. But this is the
common empirical view whereas sastra employs its own view intended to rid
us of this misconception and instill the teaching that portrays the
paramarthika view. The issue between us, between post-Sankara Advaita and
the strict reliance on Bhasya alone is



On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 6:52 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 4:57 AM Michael Chandra Cohen <
> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Subbuji,
>> Please help me understand, the Tait bhasya is referring to how Brahman
>> created the world, as it were, 'entered into' it as well, and now answers,
>> what Brahman does after it enters ."It became the formed and the formless"
>> which nonetheless "still continue to be inseparable from the Self in time
>> and space." Then, from this premise follows the notions
>> of vyavarhara vishaya and paramartha satta,  Then peripheral to the main
>> discussion comes this notion of water as the vishaya of vyavarhara and
>> mirage water as anrta. And you are saying It is by virtue of this last
>> sentence ALONE in the whole bhasya, that you wish to establish pratibhasika
>> satta as a distinct state from vyavaharika. Please, do I have that right?
>> Are there other references you can easily share? Regards, 🙏🙏🙏,
>>
>
> Namaste Michael ji,
>
> Please do not conclude that the statement of different levels of reality
> is a peripheral matter.  In truth, this idea is crucial to the Shankara
> Advaita.  It is the seminal point of Advaita.  Its pervasion throughout the
> prasthana traya bhashya is something to be seen, realized, to be
> appreciated. I shall mention a few out of the countless instances where
> this concept is repeatedly highlighted by Shankara.
>
> In the Brahma sutras is a section to determine the state of dream.  There
> in 3.2.4, Shankara says:  Nor should it be concluded that the world of
> waking made of ether, etc. elements is* not absolutely real.* We have
> eminently established in BSB 2.1.14 that the entire world (including the
> dream and sleep) is illusory: māyāmātra. Prior to the realization of
> Brahman, the waking world remains in an orderly fashion. The world of
> dream, though, is negated everyday upon waking.
>
> At the beginning of the very long bhashya for BSB 2.1.14, Shankara recalls
> what was said in the earlier portion: The distinction between the Enjoyer
> and the experienced inert world was stated as a matter of vyāvahārika. But
> this distinction does not exist in the pāramārthika since the cause and
> effect are non-different from each other.  Thus Shankara holds the world of
> experience to be unreal from the absolute standpoint.
>
> In the commentary to the last verse of the 13th chapter of the Bh.Gita,
> Shankara says, following the Gita teaching there: There are two
> requirements mandatory for liberation: 1. the knowledge that one is
> distinct from the inert prakriti and 2. that this* prakriti is
> non-existent. *
>
> In fact this verse is a mirror-verse of the 2.16 where too this teaching
> is contained, though in different words: That which is existent, Brahman,
> the Paramartha Satyam, will never go out of existence.  And that which is
> not there, will never gain existence. This corresponds to the Self and the
> not-self of the 13th ch.last verse.
>
> In the Mundaka Bhashya Shankara says: the entire creation is a figment of
> imagination of the mind.
>
> One can give examples endlessly from the Bhashya, the Vartika and
> Gaudapada for the idea of two types/levels of reality.
>
> There are innumerable such instances where Shankara has pointed to the two
> types of reality.  It's this feature of Shankaran Advaita that sets it
> apart from the other schools of Dvaita, etc.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
>
>>
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