[Advaita-l] Fw: [advaitin] Unambiguous statement of Akhandakara vritti in the Gita Bhashyam

[V Subrahmanian]

Very nicely explained. The last paragraph is elucidated in the Shaastra
with the analogy of someone seeking to know the moon.  There the expression
prakRShTaH prakAshaH chandraH is used to distinctly show the svarUpam of
chandra, which is what the seeker is interested in knowing.


regards

subbu

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025, 9:31 am Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Suresh ji,
>
> Yes, the siddhAnta is that the words satyam, jnAnam and anantam are each
> individually svarUpalakshaNa-s of Brahman, as in satyam brahma, jnAnam
> brahma, anantam brahma.
>
> Each of the individually point to the svarUpa mAtra of Brahman by refuting
> every anRta, jaDa and paricChinna individually. Having refuted that, each
> of them culminate in the svarUpa mAtra or Brahman.
>
> This is a case of pade lakshaNA - ie the vAcyArtha of the sentence is
> anRtAbhAvatva vishiShTa, jaDatvAbhAva vishiShTa and paricChinnatvAbhAva
> vishiShTa vastu. The cognition of the vAcyArtha of the shAbdabodha, ie the
> jnAna of the vishiShTa vastu, serves as a dvAra or a pathway to the
> akhanDAkAra jnAna of Brahman. The sakhaNDAkAra meaning serves to remove
> doubts that Brahman is anRta or not Brahman is inert or not, or Brahman is
> limited or not. That is why, even though each lakshaNa, Satyam brahma,
> jnAnam brahma, anantam brahma are independently sufficient to point to the
> svarUpa of Brahman, the upaniShad mentions all three, because each word in
> that definition serves to remove a separate doubt about the nature of
> Brahman.
>
> In this manner, those definitions are called "pointers" to Brahman - they
> don't directly reveal Brahman. They reveal it through the means of the
> sakhaNDAkAra vRtti of the vAcyArtha as a dvAra. After the the vAcyArtha
> upasthiti happens, the lakshyArtha upasthiti of the svarUpa happens, hence
> the former is said to be a dvAra for the latter.
>
> However, there is vAkye lakshaNA also. One can say the sentence satyam
> jnAnam anantam brahma itself acts as a pointer to Brahman as a whole (whole
> sentence). Again, the process is the same - first the sakhaNDArtha meaning
> of the sentence is revealed (ie of the satyatva jnAnatva anantatva
> vishiShTa vastu), which removes doubts about Brahman being anRta, jaDa,
> paricChinna, and that sakhANDArtha upasthiti acts as a dvAra for
> akhaNDArtha upasthiti.
>
> In this way, there is no harm to advaita even if a vishiShTa bodha happens
> first (ie this eventuality doesn't result in vishiShTAdvaita), because such
> a bodha is not the ultimate tAtparya - it is only a dvAra, a doorway, for
> the ultimate tAtparya, which is akhaNDArtha upasthiti.
>
> Ultimately the tAtparya of the seeker is in knowing what is brahman - ie
> the questioner is only interested in brahma svarUpa, so the answer given in
> the shruti as  "satyam jnAnam anantam brahma" answers that question by
> pointing to the svarUpa of Brahma and nothing else.
>
> Kind regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025, 00:23 suresh srinivasamurthy via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Rammohan ji,
>>
>> As per my understanding in the Advaitic view, the satyatva / jnyAnatva /
>> anantatva cannot be a pointer to anything other than Atman/Brahman. It is
>> very much experiential too as Atman does not need any external pointer to
>> prove its existence.
>>
>> If satyajnyAnAnandamaya Atman is a pointer to Brahman, then it results in
>> Dvaita/V.Advaita (as Atman as a pratibimba / shareera is a pointer to the
>> Bimba / AtmAntaryAmi paramAtma).
>>
>> So IMHO, the symbol and the symbolized are essentially one in the
>> Advaitic view. This is also very much in the Shankara bhAshya for
>> "ShAstrayOnitvAt" - where the AchArya teaches Brahman is the origin for
>> shAstra itself (which is unique to Shankara bhAshya).
>>
>> It would be great if other scholars could correct me if what is stated
>> above is incorrect.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Suresh
>> ________________________________
>> From: advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> on behalf of
>> Rammohan Subramaniam <rammohan.subramaniam at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2025 3:18 AM
>> To: advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [advaitin] Unambiguous statement of Akhandakara vritti in
>> the Gita Bhashyam
>>
>> Hari Om
>>
>> What Akilesh ji has stated is the correct understanding regarding every
>> swarupa Lakshna of Brahman being only a pointer to Brahman.  This is
>> because Brahman cannot be described through attributes. Thanks for posting.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 11:51:46 PM UTC+5:30
>> aki... at siftingtothetruth.com wrote:
>> Yes. Ultimately all words with respect to brahman are pointers, because
>> brahman is not an object, and cannot be said to have qualities, which are
>> products of the dualistic mind. This is why sruti says Brahman is net, neti
>> (and even that is but a pointer!).
>>
>> Akilesh Ayyar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2025 at 4:09:09 AM, suresh srinivasamurthy <
>> sure... at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Namaste Akileshji,
>>
>> The description "yato va imani bhutani jayante...." could be a pointer.
>> But are you saying - the words "satyam, jnyAnam, Anantam" are also pointers?
>>
>> Namaste,
>> Suresh
>> ________________________________
>> From: adva... at googlegroups.com <adva... at googlegroups.com> on behalf of
>> Akilesh Ayyar <aki... at siftingtothetruth.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2025 10:26 PM
>> To: adva... at googlegroups.com <adva... at googlegroups.com>
>> Cc: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
>> adva... at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Subject: Re: [advaitin] Unambiguous statement of Akhandakara vritti in
>> the Gita Bhashyam
>>
>> These are pointers, not descriptions.
>>
>> Suresvaracharya gives the description of a pointing to the star at the
>> end of a tree branch. The star is not literally there. Saying it’s at the
>> end of the branch is a way to direct someone’s attention.
>>
>> Akilesh Ayyar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2025 at 1:01:07 PM, suresh srinivasamurthy <
>> sure... at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Namaste Bhaskar-ji,
>>
>> <
>> But shAstra’s scope ends with wiping off the distinctions superimposed on
>> brahman by avidyA and shAstra does not teach the brahman as such and such a
>> thing.  It is svayaM siddha, svayam prakAshita an Aprameya aparOksha tattva.
>> >
>>
>> The words - svayaM siddha, svayam prakAshita an Aprameya aparOksha tattva
>> - How are these not a description brahman as such and such thing?
>> Appreciate if you could clarify this, please.
>>
>>
>> Namaste,
>> Suresh
>> ________________________________
>> From: adva... at googlegroups.com <adva... at googlegroups.com> on behalf of
>> Venkatraghavan S <agni... at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2025 10:13 AM
>> To: Advaitin <adva... at googlegroups.com>
>> Cc: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
>> adva... at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Subject: Re: [advaitin] Unambiguous statement of Akhandakara vritti in
>> the Gita Bhashyam
>>
>> Namaste Bhaskar ji,
>>
>> I'm glad we were able to find common ground.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025, 17:23 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin, <
>> adva... at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> The purpose of the akhaNDAkAravRtti is not the revelation of Brahman -
>> for Brahman is self-effulgent, rather it is the removal of avidyA, which
>> obscures the true nature of the Atma as Brahman.
>>
>>
>>
>> praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
>>
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with this.  brahmAvagati is not the result of AAV OTOH attaining
>> brahman or realization of our svarUpa is just the removal of avidyA, apart
>> from removal of avidyA there is no second obstruction that comes in our
>> way…and shAstra too which is ultimate pramANa to realize brahman does not
>> objectify the brahman to have the vrutti on THAT.  Ofcourse we all agree
>> that brahman is NOT an object of any action and at the same time for the
>> pedagogical purpose we say shAstra is the means of knowing IT.  But
>> shAstra’s scope ends with wiping off the distinctions superimposed on
>> brahman by avidyA and shAstra does not teach the brahman as such and such a
>> thing.  It is svayaM siddha, svayam prakAshita an Aprameya aparOksha tattva.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>
>> bhaskar
>>
>>
>>
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