[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Brahmakara vritti refuted

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear All,

In the link, a few search results from the Advaita Sharada on Akhandakara
vritti are available with references.  Excepting one,
विवरणप्रमेयसङ्ग्रहःअथ प्रथमं सूत्रम्अथ प्रथमं वर्णकम्- भाष्यम्
 the rest are all on the topic being discussed here. One can get a kind of
definition of what this vritti is, etc. fairly clearly.  For want of time I
am not giving the translations of the passages there

https://tinyurl.com/msacfsvx

regards
subbu

On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 7:59 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Michael
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Feb, 2025, 6:43 pm Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Raghav
> >
> > Please show where HH SSS speaks of Nididhyasana as you state/
> >
> > For the meaning of the term 'nidi- dhyasana' has been expressed by the
> term
> > 'immediate intuition’ (vijnana)
>
>
> It's ironic that a vague phrase "immediate intuition" which presumably
> involves some vRtti, is acceptable to you, while the word brahmAkAra vRtti,
> is a red rag.
>
>  Please also notice the need to say vijnAna, samyak-jnAna etc when jnAna
> word should have been enough.
>
>  PSA is clear that the prAmANya of shruti is not in any way contradicted by
> mere mention of BKV. I repeat - the mere mention of BKV should not become
> red rag.
>
> Please see this carefully - when someone takes to elaborate and systematic
> shravaNam etc (SMN) with some degree of sAdhana chatuShTaya but not in full
> or sufficient measure, what do you think will happen? Your "immediate
> intuition" may not take place notwithstanding elaborate shravaNam and
> mananaM.
>
> Such a half-ready mind may well appreciate the powerful yuktis and
> prakriyas. It's not as if he or she will have no clue about what is said in
> shAstra. Certain very subtle vRttis will still arise related to the
> shAstra. And yet such a sAdhaka still needs to acquire pratibandhaka
> nivRtti *even after* shravaNam etc. Thus there is no denial of shruti as
> pramANa if it is said that, even after shravaNam-mananaM, in most cases,
> some sAdhana apexA is still there.
>
>  For some people this sAdhanApexA is fulfilled by repeated shravaNam and
> mananaM itself. For others it may involve sitting quietly and
> seeing/highlighting in the mind the essence, of the already-completed
> shravaNam. Such a sitting practice conforming to shravaNam hardly amounts
> to any new pramANa. And such quiet sitting  practice culminates in the
> shravaNa-janita vRttis becoming free of all vagueness, doubt and
> viparIta-bhAvanAs, culminating in the arising of the much-maligned BKV
> (which is an exact synonym of your preferred word samyak-jnAna-vRtti).
>
> Now the chronologically earlier shravaNa-mnana-janita vRttis of this
> particular type of madhyama adhikArI sAdhaka are called
> sapratibandhaka-jnAna-vRttis and BKV is apratibandhaka-jnAna-vRtti. This
> is  anubhava-sammata and lokAnubhava of many who take to intense shravaNam
> and mananaM having partial degree of sAdhana chatuShTaya.
>
> So, as you see, your objection is without basis viz., the
> apratibandhaka-jnAna-vRtti aka BKV aka samyak-jnAna-vRtti immediately
> destroys avidyA (negates the wrong notions as you prefer to have it).
>
> The sAdhana post-shravanaM and mananaM is a *cognitive journey* to allow
> the pramANa to operate as it should , ie a journey from from
> sapratibandhaka-jnAna-vRtti to apratibandhaka-jnAna-vRtti aka BKV. It's not
> a mere mechanical repetition of the words heard during shravaNam. That is
> not what PSA or anyone is talking about much less repetition of a vRtti
> which then "produces" some other jnAnam.
>
> I also observe that the word "immediate intuition" is also not found in
> PTB.
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
>
>
>
> in the passage, 'Verily, through seeing the
> > Self, through hearing about it, through thinking of it and through
> knowing
> > it (in immediate intuition, vijfiana), all this (world) becomes known'
> > (Bfhad.II.lv.5). That meditation (dhyana) is a prerequisite of immediate
> > intulticn is not denied. But it is immediate intuition, and not
> meditetion
> > and the rest of the discipline, that is ultimately required to realize
> the
> > goal of liberation.(Vedanta Prakriya Pratyabinna/Method of the Vedanta
> > p365).
> >
> > Awakening to immediate knowledge of the supreme Self de¬ pending on no
> > external factor is called Nididhyasana. It is mentioned after seeing and
> > hearing to show that they culminate in that.... One's first knowledge of
> > the Self is through hearing, and then one ponders over what one has
> heard.
> > When hearing and pondering are complete, one comes to have immedi¬ ate
> > knowledge of the Self.... Because the use of the word 'Nididhyasana'
> (lit.
> > 'sustained meditation') might lead the hearer to suppose that meditation
> > was meant, the Upanishad deliberately uses the term 'immediate intuition’
> > (vijnana) as a synonym for it at Byhadarajpyaka II.iv.5, to show that
> medi¬
> > tation is not here meant. I already mentioned earlier how meditation and
> > other practices are a means to immediate ex¬ perience . But immediate
> > experience does not exist for the sake of anything else. It is taught to
> be
> > just liberation.attainment of the final goal of all. (Sureswara in B.B.V.
> > II.iv.217,220,
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 7:45 AM Michael Chandra Cohen <
> > michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Venkat,
> > > // I think you are alleging qualities to the akhandakara vritti that
> were
> > > not intended. How is quoting Naishkarmya Siddhi passages refuting
> > > prasankhyana relevant when no one is claiming that the vRtti arises out
> > of
> > > meditation.  //
> > > I am alleging that it is an improper depiction of PTB to conclude that
> > > meditation or any kind of effort or repetition culminates in
> > Brahmajnanam.
> > >
> > > //That samyak-dhI of Sureshvara which Shankara refers as to as
> > > AtmaikyavidyA in the adhyAsa bhAShya, (अस्यानर्थहेतोः प्रहाणाय
> > > आत्मैकत्वविद्याप्रतिपत्तये सर्वे वेदान्ता आरभ्यन्ते) is the akhanDAkAra
> > > vRtti.//
> > > Quite a hopeful stretch to seek confirmation of Akhandhakara vritti in
> > the
> > > prayojanam of Adhyasa Bhasya. Atmaikatva vidya is not a thought/vritti
> > but
> > > the culmination of the prahanaya of adhyasa.
> > >
> > > So again, I implore mulavidya vadins to discover any statement in PTB
> > > referring to Brahmakara vritti or any of its cognates as a pramana. In
> > > fact, suggesting BKV etc. as sufficient method contradicts
> > > sruti's declaration as the ONLY pramana for Brahmajnanam.
> > >
> > > 🙏🙏🙏
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 7:15 AM Michael Chandra Cohen <
> > > michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Namaste Vikram,
> > >> Excellent, I appreciate the style of your presentation.
> > >>
> > >> //5. The content of this samyak jnana is the oneness (ekatvam) of
> > >> Brahman-Atman.//
> > >> Samyak jnana is opposed to it's opposite - viparita & samshaya jnanan.
> > It
> > >> cannot be ekatvam or else it would not qualify as an ever-changing
> > vritti.
> > >> At the same moment, samakala eva, as the dissolution of viparita
> jnanam,
> > >> Ekatvam consumes all distinctions.
> > >>
> > >> “Thus also it is a fact that, although the knowledge of the Self
> results
> > >> in instantaneous liberation, yet its instruction is imparted with the
> > help
> > >> of some relationship with some conditioning factor.” BSB1.1.12
> > >> Thus, a clear distinction between samyak jnanam and atma jnanam
> > >>
> > >> //Specific technical details can be found in Vedanta Sara as well.//
> > >> Yes, I am sure but seeking confirmation outside of PTB is the essence
> of
> > >> the problem. If we strictly limit our understanding to PTB, these
> issues
> > >> should not arise.
> > >> 🙏🙏🙏
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 4:00 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> > >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Namaste Michael
> > >>> PSA understanding of nididhyAsanam is that it is pramANa vyApAra.
> > >>>
> > >>> It's not a mere repetition of a vRtti like an upAsana or
> prasaMkhyAna.
> > >>>
> > >>> The NKS reference by you is well-known as referring to the mImAmsaka
> > idea
> > >>> of using "aham brahmAsmi" as a kind of ahaMgrahopAsana or
> prasaMkhyAna
> > -
> > >>> a
> > >>> mere repetition of a vRtti not involving any pramANa operation.
> > >>>
> > >>> As often happens,  SSS misunderstood PSA view on nididhyAsanam which
> is
> > >>> for
> > >>> viparIta-bhAvanA nivRttiH ;  PSA nididhyAsanam view viz.,
> > "AtmasaMstham
> > >>> manaH kRtvA na kincit api cintayet (gita 6th chapter)"  is for
> removing
> > >>> obstacles to the shruti pramANa operation .
> > >>>
> > >>> The same word nididhyAsanam is used in Brahma siddhi of Sri  Mandana
> > >>> Mishra
> > >>> which has led to SSSS misrepresenting PSA's logical and
> shruti-sammata
> > >>> understanding of the samyak-jnAna-vRtti and thinking that PSA is
> > echoing
> > >>> brahma siddhi.
> > >>>
> > >>> PSA clearly asserts that the avAkyArtha (if we insist on the word) is
> > >>> nothing but the lakShaNA vRttiH understanding of the mahAvAkya by
> > >>> shravaNam; not by prasaMkhyAna.
> > >>>
> > >>> If SSSS and co. insist that PSA is talking only of nididhyAsanam as
> > >>> prasaMkhyAna, then they are just tilting at quixotic windmills.
> > >>>
> > >>> Om
> > >>> Raghav
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, 3 Feb, 2025, 10:34 pm Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l, <
> > >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > Namaste Sudhanshuji,
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Only Bhagavan can say why? But what does that prove? I am only
> > >>> intending to
> > >>> > voice sastra and acharya in my comments - not proclaim an
> independent
> > >>> > authority.  Even moksa-claiming teachers may misguide students
> > without
> > >>> > clear knowledge of sruti. How about your answer to the same
> question?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 8:30 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> > >>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > > Fine Michael ji.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > So, has it happened in your case? I mean, you have heard the
> > >>> shAstra. And
> > >>> > > also from a teacher. Has the avidyA been removed, or the wrong
> > ideas
> > >>> been
> > >>> > > negated?
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > If not, then why not?
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Regards
> > >>> > > Sudhanshu Shekhar.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > --
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