[Advaita-l] A dialogue between Jnana and Bhakti

[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Apr 4, 2025 at 10:50 PM Harsh Raval <hardyraval48 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Subrahmanian jii,
>
> Shri Radhe🙏,
>
> My heart is so full after reading this conversation between two aspirants
> of bhakti and gyaan.
>
> But sometimes on reading  Advaita shastras the prema for ishwara dimishes
> and mind gets indulged in confusion.
>
> For eg. PANCHDASI-6.236. Maya is said to be the desire-fulfilling cow.
> Jiva and Ishvara are its two calves. Drink of its milk of duality as much
> as you like, but the truth is non-duality.
>
> Here ishwara is considered to be under maya.
>
>  Panchdasi 1.16 says- Brahman, reflected in Maya, is known as the
> omniscient Isvara, who controls Maya.
>
> And here maya is considered to be under ishwara.
>
> How to resolve such conflicts?
>


Dear Harsh ji,

Supposing there is a Commissioner of Prisons, an IAS officer.  For
logistical reasons his office is located inside a sprawling Central Prison
premises.  When he is in his office, a relative calls up his house and
enquires where this officer is.  His wife answers: He is in the prison.

Supposing there is a criminal in the same prison serving a five-year term.
HIs relative, not in contact with this criminal/prisoner's family for a
long time, calls up his house and asks where this man is.  His wife
answers:  He is in the prison.

Now, both the answers are facts.  Yet they have a world of difference
between them.  Similar is the case with Ishwara and the bound jivas
coexisting in the realm of Maya.
*Thus, there is no question of Ishwara being under the illusion of duality
according to Advaita.*

warm regards
subbu

>
> Thanks,
>
> Harsh Raval
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2025, 22:07
> Subject: [Advaita-l] A dialogue between Jnana and Bhakti
> To: Advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>, A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>
>
> *Setting: A serene ashram garden where two seekers meet at sunset. Maya, a
> devotee following the bhakti path, sits in meditation near a small temple.
> Arun, a scholar of Vedanta focused on jnana, approaches and sits nearby.*
>
> **Arun**: *observing Maya as she completes her devotional prayers* Your
> devotion has such genuine feeling. The way you relate to the divine... it's
> as though you're speaking to someone right here.
>
> **Maya**: *smiling warmly* Because I am. The Divine is as present to me as
> you are, perhaps more so. *looking curiously* But I've seen you here
> before, always with your texts, contemplating deeply. Your path seems
> different from mine.
>
> **Arun**: Yes, I follow jnana marga—the path of knowledge. I seek
> understanding through inquiry and discrimination, peeling away layers of
> illusion to realize what is eternally true.
>
> **Maya**: And I follow my heart through bhakti. I find the Divine through
> love and surrender. *pauses* Some say our paths are contradictory.
>
> **Arun**: *thoughtfully* Many do see it that way. The jnani seeks to
> transcend all forms to realize formless Brahman, while the bhakta embraces
> divine form and relationship. But I've come to wonder if they're truly
> separate paths.
>
> **Maya**: I wonder the same. When I'm deepest in my devotion, something
> strange happens. The "I" that loves and the Divine that is loved... the
> boundary between them starts to dissolve.
>
> **Arun**: *eyes widening with interest* That's fascinating. In my deepest
> inquiries, when I follow the thread of "Who am I?" to its source, I don't
> arrive at cold, abstract knowledge. There's a... fullness there. A
> completeness that feels like love.
>
> **Maya**: Perhaps because love and knowing aren't truly separate? *picks a
> flower* When I truly love this flower, I'm paying complete attention to it.
> I'm knowing it, not intellectually, but with my whole being.
>
> **Arun**: And when I truly know something—not just conceptually but
> directly—there's a natural appreciation, even reverence, that arises. The
> boundaries between knower and known thin out.
>
> **Maya**: *nodding eagerly* Yes! When I pray to Krishna, sometimes I feel
> I'm looking through His eyes back at myself. The devotee and the object of
> devotion start to feel like two waves in the same ocean.
>
> **Arun**: That's a beautiful way to express it. The Upanishads say "Tat
> Tvam Asi"—That Thou Art. The self and Brahman are one. But this isn't just
> an intellectual proposition; it's something to be realized.
>
> **Maya**: *contemplative* In my tradition, there's a concept called
> prema—divine love in its purest form. When prema fully blossoms, they say
> the devotee and Krishna experience themselves in and as each other. Isn't
> that also non-duality?
>
> **Arun**: It sounds very much like it. Perhaps true bhakti naturally leads
> to jnana, and true jnana blossoms into bhakti.
>
> **Maya**: *looking at the setting sun* Think of the sun and its rays. The
> sun might represent Brahman or Krishna—the source—and the rays are the ways
> we approach it. Whether we study the nature of light or bask in its warmth,
> we're engaging with the same sun.
>
> **Arun**: That's an illuminating metaphor. *smiles* There's another way to
> look at it. Jnana might be recognizing that you and the Divine are one
> ocean. Bhakti is delighting in the dance of the waves.
>
> **Maya**: *laughs softly* I like that! The ocean doesn't negate the waves,
> and the waves don't diminish the ocean. They're expressions of the same
> reality.
>
> **Arun**: *nodding* And there's something else I've noticed. Jnana alone
> can become dry and conceptual without the heart engagement of bhakti. The
> knowledge might be there, but it doesn't transform you completely.
>
> **Maya**: Yes! And bhakti without some element of jnana can sometimes get
> caught in superstition or attachment to particular forms rather than the
> essence behind them.
>
> **Arun**: *thoughtfully* Perhaps they're like two wings of a bird. You need
> both to truly soar.
>
> **Maya**: *picking up a small Krishna murti* When I look at this form of
> Krishna, I'm not just seeing a deity separate from me. I'm recognizing
> something of my own essential nature reflected back at me—consciousness,
> bliss, love.
>
> **Arun**: And when I meditate on the mahavakyas, the great sayings like
> "Aham Brahmasmi"—I am Brahman—it's not a cold intellectual exercise.
> There's a profound sense of connection, an overwhelming... *searches for
> words*
>
> **Maya**: Love?
>
> **Arun**: *smiles* Yes, love. Not separate from knowledge but its very
> essence.
>
> **Maya**: *looks at the first stars appearing* The gopis in the Bhagavatam
> reach Krishna through pure love, not philosophical knowledge. Yet they
> experience the highest truth.
>
> **Arun**: And many jnanis speak of surrender—a quintessential bhakti
> quality—as essential for final realization. Even Shankaracharya composed
> beautiful devotional hymns.
>
> **Maya**: *nodding* And Ramana Maharshi, though teaching self-inquiry,
> embodied tremendous devotion. Perhaps at their heights, jnana and bhakti
> become indistinguishable.
>
> **Arun**: Like rivers with different sources meeting in the same ocean.
>
> **Maya**: *gesturing to the space between them* Maybe that's why we're
> having this conversation. To remind each other of what our paths share.
>
> **Arun**: *smiling warmly* Truth expresses itself through both wisdom and
> love. Whatever path we walk, the destination illuminates both the head and
> heart.
>
> **Maya**: *places the Krishna murti between them* When I look deeply into
> the eyes of the Beloved, I see Brahman looking back. When you realize your
> true nature, do you not find love there?
>
> **Arun**: *with deep sincerity* Always. In that speechless recognition,
> love and knowing are one movement of consciousness.
>
> *As night falls completely, they sit in comfortable silence, the boundaries
> between their paths dissolving like stars reflecting in still
> water—different lights revealing the same vast sky.*
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