[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Kilogram not yet concluded after all

[H S Chandramouli]

Dear Dennis Ji,

Reg  // Such ‘mental lack’ in my view is analogous to my failure to
understand Cantonese because I have never made the effort to gain that
knowledge. There is no actual ‘obstacle’ (other than maybe the functioning
of my aging brain and my total disinterest in pursuing that aim) //,

The fundamental difference between this and *Consciousness* is being
overlooked I think. Cantonese is not svaprakAsha meaning that it is not
self revealing. It needs to be known through effort. *Consciousness* is
svaprakAsha meaning that it stands *revealed* automatically,effortlessly.
Nearest illustration, you don’t need to put in any effort to *know*
yourself as *I*. It is automatic and effortless. Not that you do not know
this, but I am recapitulating it just to drive home my point. No offence
meant.

The only way to prevent such automatic and effortless revelation is by way
of an appropriate obstruction. That too partially only. Because the
*obstruction* itself needs to be revealed by *Consciousness*. Nearest
illustration ; dark clouds obstructing visisbility of Sun. But Clouds
themselves need to be revealed by the Sun.

Others have already given many references from the Bhashya for the issue on
hand. There may not be any nexessity for me to add any more. However it
must be pointed out that for whatever references given, you can be sure
there are always other meanings given based on their own interpretations of
the fundamental ideas of the Bhashya. So I thought it may be useful to look
at how the opposite view handles this issue of *obstruction*, as just
*absence of knowledge* is not possible in the presence of Selfrevealing
Consciousness. Sri SSS is an ardent advocate of *absence of knowledge*
postulate. How is the issue handled in his works? Though I have my own
understanding, since I am not a follower of his views on the subject, it
would be very useful if some of his followers can present his views here on
this issue. In another thread, Venkat Ji had raised this issue and Bhaskar
Ji was just responding. But it seems to have hit a hurdle on an extraneous
point, and unfortunately not progressing as of now. I do wish you could
persuade someone to do so.

Regards

On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 9:54 PM <dwaite at advaita.org.uk> wrote:

> Dear Chandramouli-ji,
>
>
>
> Could you please cite the prasthAna traya reference(s) in which
> ‘ignorance’ is explicitly stated to be an ontologically existent entity (as
> opposed to a mental lack or misunderstanding which ‘gives rise to’
> misunderstanding or ‘prevents’ understanding). By ‘explicitly stated’, I
> mean that a literal translation of the Sanskrit is unambiguous and not an
> ‘interpretation’ based upon the translators wider understanding (e.g. of
> post-Śaṅkara writers).
>
>
>
> Such ‘mental lack’ in my view is analogous to my failure to understand
> Cantonese because I have never made the effort to gain that knowledge.
> There is no actual ‘obstacle’ (other than maybe the functioning of my aging
> brain and my total disinterest in pursuing that aim).
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> P.S. Apologies if we have been over all of this before. I do get the
> feeling of going round in circles!
>
>
>
> *From:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> *On Behalf
> Of *H S Chandramouli
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2024 4:26 PM
> *To:* advaitin at googlegroups.com; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [advaitin] Kilogram concluded
>
>
>
> Namaste.
>
> Why is Ignorance as a positive entity posited in the Shrutis?
>
> In all illustrations being presented here, like cave etc, there is already
> darkness and what is needed is light for knowledge. Here we are faced with
> an entirely different situation. What is *Existing* is unalloyed Knowledge,
> meaning that the infrastructure is readily available for anything capable
> of gaining knowledge to gain it with the help of this Source.  However it
> is noticed in experience that correct knowledge concerning this  *Entity*
> itself is not available. There is universally ignorance (partial knowledge)
> about this *Entity*. This is possible ONLY if there is an obstruction for
> its correct knowledge to take place. Hence an *obstruction* is stated in
> the Shrutis, and this is termed Ignorance. This is a fundamental Ignorance
> because unless this is overcome correct knowledge of the *Entity* cannot
> take place.
>
> It is only with the help of this *Entity*, whatever knowledge anyone has
> is enabled. In the absence of this, no knowledge of anything is possible.
> It is as if everything is covered. Which is what happens in our experience
> when darkness obtains. Hence this fundamental obstruction is also termed
> *darkness*. And this ^Darkness* is termed a *positive* entity.
>
> The Shrutis also posit that correct knowledge of this *Entity* is highly
> beneficial and should be the Goal of life.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
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