[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Jnani should give up karma why? from Shankara-bhashya

[Krishna Kashyap]

namaste to all.

Is there an agreement on the chronology of the works of Shankaracharya.
If so is adhyasa bhashya the first one?
or an upanishad, where adhyasa bhashya is first introduced?


*Best Regards,*

*Krishna Kashyap*




On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:45 PM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> The root or the ultimate basis for all of the methods of Shankara's
> teaching is in the Adhyasa Bhashya. A clear study and comprehension of this
> short but extremely profound document will give the aspirant the proper
> understanding of the concepts used in the exposition of the prasthAna traya
> by Shankara.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:39 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Krishna ji
> >
> > 1. Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada accepts "krama-samuccaya" of jnAna and
> karma.
> > This implies  sequentially resorting to karma (till sufficient
> > sattva-shuddhi is attained) followed by jnAna.  He denies sama-samuccaya
> > i.e, a need to pursue karma and jnAna together for a long time. Sri
> > Shankara was highlighting the fact that jnAna is not some "technique"
> that
> > you "practice" and gradually become "strong" in it. It's a cognitive leap
> > brought about by shravaNam preceded by maturity of mind.
> >
> > 2. Note that knowledge requires a means of knowledge.  pramA (i.e.,
> jnAnam)
> > requires a means of knowledge, pramANam (pramA karaNam). And
> sattva-shuddhi
> > is not a pramANam. So jnAnam won't arise spontaneously upon attainment of
> > sattva-shuddhi. Such issues of what are pramANa-s etc are dealt with in
> > texts (like tarka etc) which are supposed to be studied at least to some
> > extent before plunging in to bhAShya study, so bhAShya may not state the
> > obvious viz., that jnAnam requires pramANam. And purity of mind is not a
> > pramANam etc. So shravaNam etc are implied in saying
> > "sattva-shuddhi-dvArA-tattva-jnAnotpattiH".
> >
> > 3. And most importantly, study of bhAShya independently of a
> sampradAyavit
> > teacher is fraught with problems. I would take the liberty of suggesting
> > that you could study at the very least one or two upaniShad bhAShyas from
> > atleast the (online, if not in-person) classes of an authentic shotriya
> > like Swami Paramarthananda ji etc. The advantage of listening to the
> > classes of a श्रोत्रिय is that a student's lack of study of tarka and
> > mImAmsA (where the idea of anga-angI is dealt with in detail wrt vaidika
> > karmas for example), will be to a significant extent, *compensated* by
> the
> > scholarship of the Guru, who can ensure we stay the course...
> >
> > To ask for more than that may be unrealistic...
> >
> > Om
> > Raghav
> >
> > P S. The idea of anga-angI is a big topic. But a basic explanation would
> be
> > that the anga-angI relation between jnAna-karma is negated because the
> > mImAmsakas did indeed study the entire veda including the upaniShads and
> > they too had to account for and explain the mahAvAkyas. They did so in
> > various ways including dealing with key vedAntic sentences as a matter
> for
> > japa or repetition, as a part (Anga) of other rituals (angI). They also
> > looked at the mahAvAkya-s etc as a kind of upAsanA - a scriptural
> > visualization of oneself (AtmA) as vast and with other such attributes;
> > such upAsanA giving rise to some invisible results. (adRShTa). All these
> > ideas were dismissed by bhAShyakAra. Jnana arrived at by shravaNam etc.,
> > gives rise to its result, viz , moksha, without depending on karma.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Dec, 2024, 9:33 pm Vikram Jagannathan via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaskaram Krishna ji
> > > Adding to Sudhanshu ji's guidance:
> > >
> > > Karma (action) resulting in chitta shuddhi (purification of
> antahkarana)
> > > assists with the genesis of sadhana chatustaya (4-fold
> > > qualifications viveka vairagya etc.). Of the 4-fold
> > > qualifications mumukshatvam is the absolute necessary for the dawn of
> > > jnana; and mumuksatvam has a prerequisite of other 3 qualifications.
> > Hence
> > > Swami Sankaracharya says, in BrahmaSutra 1.1.1, that these 4-fold
> > > qualifications are the prerequisites for brahma-jijnasa. There is an
> > > invariable concomitance relationship between brahma-jijnasa and these
> > > 4-fold qualifications. In the presence of these 4-fold
> > > qualifications brahma-jijnasa is natural and unavoidable. In absence of
> > > these 4-fold qualifications true brahma-jijnasa is not possible.
> > >
> > > Now, looking at karma, there is no invariable concomitance between
> karma
> > > and the 4-fold qualifications or even brahma-jijnasa. Hence karma
> cannot
> > be
> > > sahakari. Agnihotra, tapas etc. (although dama is included part of
> 4-fold
> > > qualifications) can lead to chitta suddhi and chitta ekagratha. This
> can
> > in
> > > turn give rise to viveka. However, viveka can originate through other
> > means
> > > as well. Cognition and understanding of the transitoriness of
> day-to-day
> > > experiences can also result in viveka. There are plenty of examples in
> > the
> > > lives of great masters such as Gautama Buddha, Ramana Maharshi etc.,
> > where
> > > even in the absence of pointed karma there is the genesis of viveka and
> > > consequently the other 4-fold qualifications. Therefore, karma can at
> > best
> > > be an upaya (means) to gaining brahma-jijnana and not a hard requisite.
> > >
> > > Further, to your question "here once a person gets satva shuddhi
> through
> > > agnihotra, tapas, dama and so on, if automatically one gets tatva
> jnana"
> > -
> > > chitta suddhi does *not* automatically result in tattva-jnana. Only
> > > mumukhatvam results in the genesis of tattva-jnana / aparokshanubhuti
> on
> > > sravanam (with/without mananam & nidhidhyasanam) of the mahavakyas.
> > Without
> > > the 4-fold qualifications, mere sravanam of this mahavakya will not
> > result
> > > in tattva-jnana. That differentiates true-seekers / jnanis against the
> > rest
> > > of us mere readers / listeners of the scriptures.
> > >
> > > To summarize, while karma is definitely helpful for developing the
> 4-fold
> > > qualifications, karma is not a hard requisite for this. Karma is
> optional
> > > based on the current qualification of the seeker.
> > >
> > > prostrations,
> > > Vikram
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 9:53 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> > > sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Namaste Krishna ji.
> > > >
> > > > here once a person gets satva shuddhi through agnihotra, tapas, dama
> > and
> > > so
> > > >> on, if automatically one gets tatva jnana, then why does
> > shankaracharya
> > > >> denies that status of anga, sahakari karana and so on for the karma
> > > >> portion, which includes these agnihotra and so on?
> > > >>
> > > >> this is the question. I dont know of a clear answer here.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Bhagvan BhAshyakAra gives the sequence to moksha in GItA bhAshya
> 5.12.
> > > >
> > > > It is as follows:
> > > >
> > > > Karma-yOga => sattva-shuddhi => jnAna-prApti => sarva-karma-sanyAsa
> =>
> > > > jnAna-nishThA => mOksha. (कर्मफलं त्यक्त्वा परित्यज्य शान्तिं
> > > मोक्षाख्याम्
> > > > आप्नोति नैष्ठिकीं निष्ठायां भवां
> > > > सत्त्वशुद्धिज्ञानप्राप्तिसर्वकर्मसंन्यासज्ञाननिष्ठाक्रमेणेति
> वाक्यशेषः
> > ।)
> > > >
> > > > In 5.27 - कर्मयोगश्च ईश्वरार्पितसर्वभावेन ईश्वरे ब्रह्मणि आधाय
> > क्रियमाणः
> > > > सत्त्वशुद्धिज्ञानप्राप्तिसर्वकर्मसंन्यासक्रमेण मोक्षाय इति भगवान् पदे
> > पदे
> > > > अब्रवीत्.
> > > >
> > > > Now, mOksha is only by jnAna (ज्ञानात् एव कैवल्यम्). However, that
> > jnAna
> > > > needs to be devoid of asambhAvanA and viparIta-bhAvanA. Otherwise, it
> > > will
> > > > not be effective. (Pl check पुरुषापराधमलिनाधिषणा निरवद्यचक्षुरुदयापि
> > > यथा। न
> > > > फलाय भर्च्छुविषया भवति श्रुतिसम्भवापि तु तथात्मनि धीः।।).
> > > >
> > > > In order to remove viparIta-bhAvanA and asambhAvanA,
> > sarva-karma-sanyAsa
> > > > and jnAna-nishThA are essential.
> > > >
> > > > Hope, part of the question is addressed.
> > > >
> > > > Further, the basic logic as to why Bhagvan BhAshyakAra insists on
> > absence
> > > > of co-existence of jnAna and karma is because of the following. Karma
> > > > requires avidyA. Karma-yOga requires karma which is in turn requires
> > > > avidyA. So, karma-yOga is prescribed only for avdiyAvAn-sAdhaka who
> is
> > > > incapable to situate in jnAna-nishThA.
> > > >
> > > > Since karma requires avidyA and is prior to sattva-shuddhi, it cannot
> > > > exist after jnAna-prApti. Hence, mumukshu subsequent to jnAna-prApti
> > has
> > > to
> > > > give up karma. That is why AchArya emphasizes on sarva-karma-sanyAsa.
> > > >
> > > > Regards.
> > > > Sudhanshu Shekhar.
> > > >
> > > >> --
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