[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

//Yes prabhuji, that is the reason why bhAshyakAra somewhere says there is
not even an iota of paramArtha in Svapna prapancha but vyavahAra yOgya
jaagrat prapancha is having paramArtha vastu as its adhishtAnam.  But he
also warns us not to jump to the conclusion that everything is mere bhranti
until you are waking to the higher truth than what you are experiencing
now.//

What is this "waking up" to higher truth. Dream and waking are identical is
proved by logic. MANDUkya does that. AItareya proclaims that. Even without
realizing that, the logical conclusion is for one and all -- there is no
difference between waking and dream. Not even a bit of difference.

//It is on the evidence or want of evidence of some valid means of
knowledge that we have to determine the conceivability or the
inconceivability of the existence of a thing and not vice versa.  It is
from this point of view only bhAshyakAra does not deny the validity of
pramANa-s.//

Even with all the pramANa operating, none of the thing of your dream
existed. This statement is valid within dream/waking. When dream and waking
are equated, this quotation of bhAshyakAra is inapplicable. We are sitting
outside the waking/dream and stating their identity.

//So as long as you are there in this world, as long as you are there as
jnAtru / pramAtru / bhOktru, the ‘socalled’ waking sampradaya holds its own
significance as against Svapna sampradaya and Svapna guru.//

But how do you know that you are not dreaming. 😀

//No sincere mumukshu would dare to conclude that OK since waking and dream
states are one and the same I shall do my adhyAtma sAdhana in my dream
state, knowingly or unknowingly he wants to do the sAdhana in the state
where he is and considering that it is the reality.  For that matter when
he is seeing the dream tiger he is in that state don’t think it is mere
dream tiger but it is real tiger.  Waking to the higher reality only
sublates the previously held state as reality.  So till that time, let us
all pray for guru / Ishwara  kAruNya as he is our mOksha dAta.//

When waking, dream and sushupti are all dreams, then one has this moment
for sAdhanA. Why would he wait for another dream to do his sAdhanA? There
is this moment, and this a moment of dream, he will do the sAdhanA.

 //And for all practical purposes this is how our adhyAtma sAdhana would go
forward and in this frame work, though one talks a lot about shAstra if he
is asampradAyin needs to be ignored as idiot because for the brahma jnana
we need the guidance of shrOtriya-brahmanishta saMpradAyavida Acharya.  And
we have to prostrate before him and he is tattva darshi (tadviddhi
praNipAtena pari prashneya sevaya).  Guru Ashraya is indispensable in
brahma jignAsa, tadeva cha vishesheN jijnAsitavyaM gurvAshraya
shavaNAdyupaayairarnishya cha sAkshAtkaraNeeyaM ityarthaH.  And I am sorry
to say this more authentic way of jnana sAdhana will be highly diluted when
we have the preconceived notion that this guru-sampradaaya-upadesha-sAdhana
etc. are mere puppets dancing in my dream.//

Isme preconceived notion ki kyA baat hai. Shruti and bhAshya are saying
that. We will have to artificially close our eyes to those sections of
bhAshya if we want to continue with default set-up and leave those sections
to be practised at some later time when we wake up to higher reality. It is
logically clear and one needs to be illogical to aver more reality to
waking than dream.


On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 5:22 PM Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
wrote:

> praNAms Sri Sudhanshu prabhuji
>
> Hare Krishna
>
> Now, this framework is certainly present in bhAshya everywhere in addition
> to the common default framework wherein waking is given more reality to
> dream. Therefore, in the default framework, waking Shruti is more reliable
> than dream Shruti and waking Shankara is more authentic than dream
> Shankara. Is it not? The waking sampradAya is much more required for
> liberation than dream sampradAya.
>
>
>
>    - Yes prabhuji, that is the reason why bhAshyakAra somewhere says
>    there is not even an iota of paramArtha in Svapna prapancha but vyavahAra
>    yOgya jaagrat prapancha is having paramArtha vastu as its adhishtAnam.  But
>    he also warns us not to jump to the conclusion that everything is mere
>    bhranti until you are waking to the higher truth than what you are
>    experiencing now.  It is on the evidence or want of evidence of some valid
>    means of knowledge that we have to determine the conceivability or the
>    inconceivability of the existence of a thing and not vice versa.  It is
>    from this point of view only bhAshyakAra does not deny the validity of
>    pramANa-s.  So as long as you are there in this world, as long as you are
>    there as jnAtru / pramAtru / bhOktru, the ‘socalled’ waking sampradaya
>    holds its own significance as against Svapna sampradaya and Svapna guru.
>    No sincere mumukshu would dare to conclude that OK since waking and dream
>    states are one and the same I shall do my adhyAtma sAdhana in my dream
>    state, knowingly or unknowingly he wants to do the sAdhana in the state
>    where he is and considering that it is the reality.  For that matter when
>    he is seeing the dream tiger he is in that state don’t think it is mere
>    dream tiger but it is real tiger.  Waking to the higher reality only
>    sublates the previously held state as reality.  So till that time, let us
>    all pray for guru / Ishwara  kAruNya as he is our mOksha dAta.
>
>
>
> This whole approach of putting more reality to waking is a default
> position. ShAstra uses this and postulates shrishTi, Ishwara who does this
> srishTi, Ishwara whom we should pray for kArUNyam etc etc. This is a
> distinct framework. This is called SDV.
>
>
>
>    - And for all practical purposes this is how our adhyAtma sAdhana
>    would go forward and in this frame work, though one talks a lot about
>    shAstra if he is asampradAyin needs to be ignored as idiot because for the
>    brahma jnana we need the guidance of shrOtriya-brahmanishta saMpradAyavida
>    Acharya.  And we have to prostrate before him and he is tattva darshi
>    (tadviddhi praNipAtena pari prashneya sevaya).  Guru Ashraya is
>    indispensable in brahma jignAsa, tadeva cha vishesheN jijnAsitavyaM
>    gurvAshraya shavaNAdyupaayairarnishya cha sAkshAtkaraNeeyaM ityarthaH.  And
>    I am sorry to say this more authentic way of jnana sAdhana will be highly
>    diluted when we have the preconceived notion that this
>    guru-sampradaaya-upadesha-sAdhana etc. are mere puppets dancing in my
>    dream.
>    -  And if you think that this sAmpradAyik way of jignAsa is just for
>    maNda and Madhyama adhikAri-s and every thing is just dream is for uttama
>    adhikAri-s, I would like to be mandAdhikAri 😊
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>
> bhaskar
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
Pune

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