[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Ishwara has no real authorship, kartrutvam, in the creation of the world - Srimad Bhagavatam

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:38 AM Akilesh Ayyar <
akilesh at siftingtothetruth.com> wrote:

> Hrm. I don't know if that conceptualization works. Ishwara is already the
> concept of saguna brahman. If there is Ishwara, there is a world, and if
> there is a world, there is creation, and if there is creation, it is
> directed. By whom could it be directed but Ishwara?
>
> I'm not sure it makes much sense to say that Ishwara can push the
> responsibility onto the gunas. The gunas are controlled by Ishwara.
>
> Indeed in Swami Tapasyananda's translation of BG 9:10 Bhagavan says:
> "*Under My direction and control*, Nature brings out this mighty universe
> of living and non-living beings. Thus does the wheel of this world revolve."
>

Actually even for the jiva the Bhagavadgita denies any doership whatsoever:

प्रकृतेः क्रियमाणानि गुणैः कर्माणि सर्वशः ।
अहङ्कारविमूढात्मा कर्ताहमिति मन्यते ॥ २७ ॥  3.27

*English Translation By Swami Gambirananda*

3.27 While actions are being done in every way by the gunas (alities) of
Nature, one who is deluded by egoism thinks thus: 'I am the doer.'

In the commentary Shankara says:  All actions, worldly and scriptural are
carried out by Prakriti.

If it is asked 'How can Prakriti which is jaDa do all that, including
willing to do, etc.?' the answer is: Even willing etc. are the traits of
the mind which is a product of prakriti.

In fact Shankara in the commentary to BG 9.10 cites the Rg veda sukta and
says 'The question and answer for What is the basis for creation? is beyond
any reasoning and even cites Bhagavn in BG 5.15 where He says: Enveloped by
ignorance the jivas are deluded'.

किंनिमित्ता इयं सृष्टिः इत्यत्र प्रश्नप्रतिवचने अनुपपन्ने, ‘को अद्धा वेद क
इह प्रवोचत् । कुत आजाता कुत इयं विसृष्टिः’ (ऋ. १० । १२९ । ६), (तै. ब्रा.
२ । ८ । ९) इत्यादिमन्त्रवर्णेभ्यः । दर्शितं च भगवता — ‘अज्ञानेनावृतं ज्ञानं
तेन मुह्यन्ति जन्तवः’ (भ. गी. ५ । १५)
<https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita?page=5&id=BG_C05_V15&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9E%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9E%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%20%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%83>
 इति ॥ १० ॥

It is exactly this that the Bhagavatam verse under discussion is saying in
the context of Ishwara as well.

 The verse BG 5.14 says:

न कर्तृत्वं न कर्माणि लोकस्य सृजति प्रभुः ।
न कर्मफलसंयोगं स्वभावस्तु प्रवर्तते ॥ १४ ॥

It is svabhAva, mAya, prakriti, that does everything and the Atman does
nothing.

Even with reference to the Antaryami in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3.6.3,
Shankara says:

देवताकार्यकरणस्य ईश्वरसाक्षिमात्रसान्निध्येन हि नियमेन प्रवृत्तिनिवृत्ती
स्याताम् ;

The body mind complex of the jiva is impelled by the mere passive presence
of the Ishwarasakshi by default.

Hence the Atma, whether jiva or Saguna Ishwara, is an absolutely
non-performing passive participant in the cosmic as well as individual
functions. It is with regard to the saguna Ishwara alone the Bhagavatam
says that.  It even gives the analogy of a jiva thinking that he is the
doer in a dream, while   he is a mere witness to the dream.

The "*Under My direction and control' *means the mere passive presence as
per Shankara. .

warm regards

subbu

  Of course, if Ishwara is considered in its true nature as Brahman, then
of course, there is no doing, no creation. But then, too, there cannot be
said to be any separate world; in that case, the world is non-different
from Brahman, and cannot be referred to as 'world' in our common
language, nor can there be said to be time, space, events, or change; it is
the unnameable, the unborn, the ajata.

>
> Akilesh Ayyar
> Spiritual guidance - http://www.siftingtothetruth.com/
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 12:21 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> When Paramashiva gave Darshan to Markandeya, he did a stuti:
>>
>> श्रीमद्भागवतपुराणम्/स्कन्धः १२/अध्यायः १०
>> https://sa.wikisource.org/s/ttl
>> <https://sa.wikisource.org/s/ttl?fbclid=IwAR0l6m6cyOfEh9S-ibKvquTqkx3A9yO0mHEaM-5ded3AWZIOjNBnM5i2fW8>
>>
>> *सृष्ट्वेदं मनसा विश्वं आत्मनानुप्रविश्य यः ।*
>> *गुणैः कुर्वद्‌भिराभाति कर्तेव स्वप्नदृग् यथा ॥ ३१ ॥*
>>
>> Brahman created this world mentally and entered it. In a dream one feels
>> as if he has done some or the other action but in reality he has no
>> doership, kartrutva. *He is just a witness to the dream, while only the
>> three gunas do all the creation. This is how it is in the present context
>> of Ishwara creating. Paramatma only appears as the creator of the world.
>> Indeed, Ishwara does nothing.*
>> Brahman nirguna, nishkriya, passive. Brahman is the cause of the world
>> only by Maya association. This causality is not true.
>> Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita:
>> *मयाध्यक्षेण प्रकृतिः सूयते सचराचरम् ।*
>> हेतुनानेन कौन्तेय जगद्विपरिवर्तते ॥10॥ 9.10
>> While I am a mere witness, nature, Prakruti, creates this world of all
>> beings moving and unmoving.
>> Om
>>
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>>
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