[Advaita-l] Fwd: Brahman is the Upadana (material) cause as well of the world - Srimad Bhagavatam

[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 7:35 PM Kaushik Chevendra <
chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>>
>> We already know this. But that does not take away the objection of the
>> 'abhava' of the world in Brahman and vice versa as in the chair is not a
>> table and vice versa. We call a chair not a table only because the table is
>> not 'in' the entity called chair and vice versa. That mutual absence,
>> anyonya abhava, between the two which signifies bheda, difference, between
>> the two can't be overcome. In Advaita the entire world is non-different
>> from Brahman, being superimposed in Brahman and hence no bheda. Just like
>> the superimposed snake is not counted as a second, different from the
>> substratum rope.
>>
> That isn't a problem for the dualists. The hold brahman to be unique and
> different from the world.
>
>>
>>
>> Even with respect to Akasha, there is the vastu paricchinna dosha since
>> we count vayu, agni, etc. as *different* from akasha even though the
>> rest are all pervaded by, existing in, Akasha. Shankara has said this in
>> the Taittiriya bhashya on Satyam, Jnanam Anantam Brahma, while discussing
>> ananta, infinite.  Akasha is thus not infinite in this sense; it is still
>> finite.
>>
> Any example given to compare two things cannot be exactly same. As it
> would become the very thing, if both are similar in all ways. The
> comparison of Brahman with akasha isn't to prove Akasha as infinite like
> brahman, but rather to show how pervasion can occur while being different.
>

The pervasion meant by them is not misunderstood by us. We too say Brahman
pervades everything. But the sense in which we say is: just like the rope
pervades the snake.  It is not simply covering the pervaded object/s.  In
the Bh.Gita 13.15th verse Shankaracharya explains what is meant by the
'pervading' of Brahman:

*मूल श्लोकः*

बहिरन्तश्च भूतानामचरं चरमेव च।

सूक्ष्मत्वात्तदविज्ञेयं दूरस्थं चान्तिके च तत्।।13.16।।


*English Translation By Swami Gambirananda*

13.16 Existing outside and inside all beings; moving as well as non-moving,
It is incomprehensible due to subtleness. So also, It is far away, and yet
near.

(part of the ) Commentary by Shankaracharya:
When 'outside' and 'inside' are used, there may arise the contingency of
the nonexistence of That in the middle. Hence this is said: acharam charam
eva ca, moving as well as not moving - even that which appears as the body,
moving or not moving, is nothing but Brahman, *in the same way as the
appearance of a snake on a rope (is nothing but the rope).*

So, the pervading of Brahman (of the entire creation) is not something like
the container-contained or space pervading everything in and out but the
very existence of the pervaded as non-different from the pervading Brahman.
In this way alone Brahman is perfectly vastu-pariccheda shunyam, free of
being limited by any object other than itself.

warm regards
subbu

>
> On a side note the bagavtham is an advaitic text only. The dualist only
> cherry pick verses of bagavtham to show hari sarwottama whole conveniently
> leaving the advaitic portions. And go on to the extent to call them an
> interpolation.
>
>>
>>
>> regards
>> subbu
>>
>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 8:43 AM Kaushik Chevendra <
>> chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If this Vasudeva Narayana Brahman is different from any other, then it
>>>> is
>>>> subject to the defect of 'limitation by object' (vastu-pariccheda) and
>>>> does
>>>> not deserve to be called Parabrahman. Because the absence of Brahman is
>>>> in
>>>> the other and the absence of the other is in Brahman (anyonyaabhava),
>>>> Brahman remains limited, a-purna.
>>>>
>>> The general answer given by the dualists is that like space pervades all
>>> objects it is never the object itself. And any modifications and
>>> limitations of objects doesn't affect the space itself.
>>> At the same time no object can exist without space, but space remains
>>> independent of the object.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>