[Advaita-l] ​Re: [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Bhaskar Ji,

I just noticed the following from one of your posts in Advaitin (I am not a
member in that group).

<<  Kindly let us know whether this scholar have spoken anything about
avidyA=mAya when he is citing the meanings and grammatical forms.  If yes,
had he quoted any justification for this conclusion?? >>.

It may be of interest to note Sri SSS himself has admitted to this
equation. Please refer  to **Introduction**  by Sri SSS in his text on
KathOpanishad, page vi, in kannada under the title “what is avidyA”, which
I have translated to English here

Quote  << *Although the AchArya has indeed used at some places the terms
avidyA and mAyA as synonymous terms*, since apart from deliberating  that
avidyA is mithyAjnAna which is destroyed by vidyA (AdhyAsa BhAshya) and
that mayA is the seedform of nAmarUpa imagined through avidyA
(avidyAkalpita) (BSB 2-1-14) ;  again further in a sUtra bhAshya initiated
for deliberating upon the meaning of the term **avyakta **, two versions
are separately presented ;; on the one hand taking the stand that **avyakta
is mAyA ** and on the other hand  ** avyakta is avidyA ** (BSB 1-4-3),-- it
becomes clear that in shAnkara prasthAna avidyA belongs to the realm of
knowledge (jnAnakOti) while mAyA belongs to the realm of objects
(jnEyakOti). Hence ** avidyA is the seed for samsAra ** needs to be
 understood as cause for samsAra while ** avyakta is the seed for jagat **
needs to be understood as avyakta being the upAdAna kAraNa >>. Unquote
(Emphasis mine).

Link to above

<<
http://www.adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=kannada&book_id=091&pagenum=0001#page/8/mode/1up
>>

Sri SSS has preferred to present an interpretational view of the BhAshya
(his own interpretation) rather than the direct and explicit view (avidyA
and mAyA are synonymous terms) stated in the BhAshya. This is in
contravention of the generally accepted rule which calls for accepting the
direct statements and interpreting others in line with this. Also such an
interpretation leads to the conclusion that the Bhashya is
selfcontradictory.
Regards

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:32 AM Jaishankar Narayanan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dear Bhaskar ji,
>
> This demand is because SSS prakriya followers deny any Ontological status
> to Asat / Anrta / Mithya as defined by Bhashyakara and only talk about an
> epistemological error by wrongly interpreting the rope-snake, shell-silver
> analogies. If you are not able to teach using the analogies given in Shruti
> and Smriti then your prakriya is Shruti / Smriti Virodha.
>
> Bhasyakara uses rope-snake, shell-silver analogies only to point out the
> AvaraNa and vikshepa shakti of ajnAna. This analogy cannot be extended to
> say that world will vanish like snake for the jnAni. But that is what SSS
> implies by denying jnAni's svAnubhava as a jnAni and making dvaita
> perception itself as an error to be removed.
>
> This is because of a misunderstading of what is sat and asat and the nature
> of a tattvadarshi as revealed in the Gita and Upanishads. SSS fails to
> understand jnAni is Brahman but Brahman is not a jnAni.
>
> Bhagavan says in BG2.16
>
> उभयोरपि दृष्टोऽन्तस्त्वनयोस्तत्त्वदर्शिभिः
>
> Bhashyakara writes
>
> एवम् आत्मानात्मनोः सदसतोः उभयोरपि दृष्टः उपलब्धः अन्तो निर्णयः सत् सदेव
> असत् असदेवेति, तु अनयोः यथोक्तयोः तत्त्वदर्शिभिः ।
>
> Atma /sat and anAtma / asat both are seen and they both have been
> ascertained as 'sat is sat' and 'asat is asat' by the tattvadarshis /
> jnAnis.
>
> Similarly in BG 4.18
>
> कर्मण्यकर्म यः पश्येदकर्मणि च कर्म यः ।
> स बुद्धिमान्मनुष्येषु स युक्तः कृत्स्नकर्मकृत् ॥
>
> One who sees akarma in karma and karma in akarma is a buddhimAn
>
> Bhagavan does not say seeing karma itself is bandha. So perception of
> duality is not a problem but satya-anrta-mithunee-karanam is the problem
> and viveka buddhi is to see 'sat as sat' and 'asat as asat' and akarta as
> sat and karta as asat. This is the traditional teaching and SSS has
> completely missed this and made dvaita more real by saying jnAni cannot
> perceive duality leading to anirmoksha-prasanga.
>
> Unfortunately sincere mumukshus are caught in a trap by this prakriya and
> are waiting lifelong for dvaita perception  to end.
>
> With love and prayers,
> Jaishankar
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:00 PM Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Since Rope-Snake / Shell-Silver is nowhere to be found in the Upanishads
> > commented by Shankara, Gita and Brahmasutra and only clay-pot, gold-lump
> > and iron-nail cutter is found in the Upanishad, please present your reply
> > with these instead of rope-snake analogy. I think then it will be clear
> > what Ontology and epistemology are and how they are related to each other
> >
> > praNAms
> > Hare Krishna
> >
> > Frankly, I am unable to understand this demand.  Why this demand when
> > bhAshyakAra himself used these (rajju-sarpa / shukti-rajata) examples in
> > his commentaries??  Well, if at all there is drastic difference between
> > these two analogies ( i.e. clay-pot & rope-snake) that would be, IMO,
> > kArya-kAraNa ananyatvaM in clay-pot analogy and kAraNa-s no relation with
> > that of appearing mithyA kArya in rajju-sarpa. But need more elaboration
> > from your side for this particular demand and what would be the
> > consequences if we use rajju-sarpa in place of clay-pot.  But it is
> better
> > to keep in mind some of the traditional presenters have argued that both
> > analogies are serving the same purpose in Advaita prakriya.
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > Bhaskar YR
> >
> >
> > Since Rope-Snake / Shell-Silver is nowhere to be found in the Upanishads
> > commented by Shankara, Gita and Brahmasutra and only clay-pot, gold-lump
> > and iron-nail cutter is found in the Upanishad, please present your reply
> > with these instead of rope-snake analogy. I think then it will be clear
> > what Ontology and epistemology are and how they are related to each
> other.
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>