[Advaita-l] Binary nature of Jnana

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Venkat Ji,
>>>>
>>>> Reg  <<  Upadesha sAhasri,  Metric,  Chapter 18
>>>>
>>>> <<  अशनायादिनिर्मुक्त्यै  तत्काला  जायते  प्रमा I
>>>>
>>>> तत्वमस्यादिवाक्ार्थे  त्रिषु  कालेऽप्यसंशयः II >>  Verse  103
>>>>
>>>> <<  ashanAyAdinirmuktyai  tatkAlA  jAyate  pramA I
>>>>
>>>> tatvamasyAdivAkArthe  triShu  kAle.apyasaMshayaH II  >>,
>>>>
>>>> <<  प्रतिबन्धविहीनत्वात्स्वयं  चानुभवात्मनः  I
>>>>
>>>> जायेतैव  प्रमा  तत्र  स्वात्मन्येव  न  संशयः  II  >>   Verse  104
>>>>
>>>> <<  pratibandhavihInatvAtsvayaM  chAnubhavAtmanaH  I
>>>>
>>>>  jAyetaiva  pramA  tatra  svAtmanyeva  na  saMshayaH  II  >>,
>>>>
>>>> It is clearly brought out here that Realization is coterminous with
>>>> hearing of the mahAvAkya. Hence hearing of the mahAvAkya again during the
>>>> repetitious shravaNa is essential for Realization.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, agreed  >>,
>>>>
>>>> Nice to see agreement on a crucial issue. I will proceed from here to
>>>> clarify  my understanding of VS.
>>>>
>>>> Reg  << I don't think Vichara Sagara would disagree with this  >>,
>>>>
>>>> Here is where I think we are disagreeing. VS does indeed differ on this
>>>> point. As per my understanding of VS,  Realization could occur much later
>>>> than hearing of the mahavAkya, when the pratibandhakAs are removed. I am
>>>> clarifying this below with reference to the Ch Up you cited.
>>>>
>>>> <<  If what you say is the real intent of the Vichara Sagara, then it
>>>> would be contrary to the repetition of the mahAvAkya in the shruti, e.g.
>>>> the sixth chapter of the ChAndogya for example. There, Shvetaketu would
>>>> have got aparoksha jnAna from the first instance of hearing tattvamasi
>>>> itself (according to the text), and there would be no question of the
>>>> subsequent repetition many times over.
>>>>
>>>> However the repetition does happen. The reason is because despite
>>>> hearing tattvamasi and it producing aparoksha jnAna, Shvetaketu is not
>>>> convinced of the validity and aparokshatva of that knowledge. Those doubts
>>>> are resolved and the guru says tattvamasi many times over, until he has had
>>>> the direct conviction that he is Brahman >>,
>>>>
>>>> As per my understanding, according to VS, aparOksha jnAna does take
>>>> place for Shvetaketu when he hears the mahAvAkya first time round. But that
>>>> aparOksha jnana is with pratibandhakAs. When his Guru repeats the mahAvAkya
>>>> tattvamasi 9 times, each time it is preceded by different illustrations and
>>>> reasonings. These serve to remove the different pratibandhakAs Shvetaketu
>>>> was suffering from. It is this removal of all these  pratibandhakAs that
>>>> lead to his aparOksha  jnAna with pratibandhakAs to be automatically
>>>> converted to one without pratibandhakAs. Such change in the nature of
>>>> aparOksha jnAna from one with pratibandhakas to one without them is not
>>>> because of the Guru repeating the mahAvAkya  tattvamasi several times over,
>>>> but because of the removal of pratibandhakAs due to the illustrations and
>>>> reasoning given by the Guru. The inference would be that even without the
>>>> repetition of the mahavAkya tattvamasi itself here 9 times over, such a
>>>> change would still have taken place. This is my understanding of VS.
>>>>
>>>> This is the main issue.The other issues are incidental and would get
>>>> sorted out once this is cleared. In the absence of agreement on this point,
>>>> I think we will have to agree to disagree and close the discussion.
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>