[Advaita-l] Fwd: [advaitin] Yet another Mahavakya in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

I am definitely of the understanding that aparOkshajnAna is not possible
through recollection alone. As per Sri Bhagavatpada, aparOksha jnAna arises
ONLY on shravaNa. This is my understanding.

Best to conclude the discussion at this stage I think. On my part it is **
agree to disagree**.

Regards

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:35 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste,
> The answer to that question was I don't recall any such reference.
> However I thought you went on to conclude from such a (possible) absence
> that aparoksha jnAna was therefore not possible from a recollection.
> If you are instead not saying that, I don't think there is any argument
> here.
>
> Regards
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, 08:37 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste.
>>
>> Reg  <<  One cannot hold that no  such recollection of the mahAvAkya
>> takes place  >>,
>>
>> I think we are deviating from the original question. I have not stated
>> anywhere that recollection of the mahAvAkya heard earlier does not take
>> place at all. I had repeated this earlier also. The issue was whether such
>> recollection at a later date can by itself lead to aparOksha jnAna without
>> any further effort. Any references to that effect in the Bhashya. The
>> intention was not any independent analysis of the issue. The issue was
>> whether there are any references to that effect in the Bhashya.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:49 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste,
>>>
>>> From a practical perspective too, in manana and nididhyAsana also, one
>>> recalls the shruti vAkya heard in shravaNam. All recollection is due to
>>> samskAra of prior experience. One cannot hold that no  such recollection of
>>> the mahAvAkya takes place.
>>>
>>> Nor can one say that such a recollection of the mahAvAkya during manana
>>> and nididhyAsana cannot give rise to jnAna either. It contradicts both
>>> experience and the bhAShya to BS1.1.4 which
>>> says श्रवणवदवगत्यर्थत्वान्मनननिदिध्यासनयोः.
>>>
>>> Even if that is somehow true and jnAna cannot occur during manana
>>> nididhyAsana - Suppose a person has overcome all his jnAna pratibandhas
>>> after manana nididhyAsana over a long time.
>>> It is not appropriate to insist that one must again go back to their
>>> guru for mahAvAkya shravaNam so that they can get jnAna. And if they don't,
>>> that they cannot be liberated in that birth!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021, 17:30 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 9:25 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste,
>>>>> samskAra need not be mentioned - as long as the possibility is not
>>>>> denied,
>>>>> there is nothing to say it is impossible.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the Brihadaranyaka mantra 4.4.2  तं विद्याकर्मणी समन्वारभेते
>>>> पूर्वप्रज्ञा च ॥ २ ॥  Shankara says for vidya: विद्याकर्मणी — विद्या च
>>>> कर्म च विद्याकर्मणी विद्या सर्वप्रकारा विहिता प्रतिषिद्धा च अविहिता
>>>> अप्रतिषिद्धा च,  all these learnt, studied, are part of the jiva who
>>>> transmigrates to another body. दृश्यते च केषाञ्चित् कासुचित्क्रियासु
>>>> चित्रकर्मादिलक्षणासु विनैव इह अभ्यासेन जन्मत एव कौशलम् , कासुचित्
>>>> अत्यन्तसौकर्ययुक्तास्वपि अकौशलं केषाञ्चित् ;  what has been
>>>> learnt/practiced stays with the individual forever as vasana and manifests
>>>> in another body without the need for its abhyasa afresh.  He gives the
>>>> example of drawing, etc. And concludes: तस्मात् एतत् त्रयं
>>>> शाकटिकसम्भारस्थानीयं परलोकपथ्यदनं विद्याकर्मपूर्वप्रज्ञाख्यम् । यस्मात्
>>>> विद्याकर्मणी पूर्वप्रज्ञा च देहान्तरप्रतिपत्त्युपभोगसाधनम् , तस्मात्
>>>> विद्याकर्मादि शुभमेव समाचरेत् , यथा इष्टदेहसंयोगोपभोगौ स्याताम् — इति
>>>> प्रकरणार्थः ॥  Since what is acquired stays, one should endeavor to do the
>>>> good alone so that one gets a good life in future.
>>>>
>>>> From this it is clear that vidya, whether it is laukika or adhyatma,
>>>> acquired in one life manifests in another life when the necessary
>>>> circumstances are in place. So, it remains as samskara and aids
>>>> its perfection.
>>>>
>>>> There is a famous subhashita too:
>>>>
>>>> गतेऽपि वयसि ग्राह्या विद्या सर्वात्मना बुधैः |
>>>> यद्द्यापि स्यान्न फलदा सुलभा सान्यSजन्मनि  |
>>>>
>>>> The  wise and learned persons have ordained that 'Vidyaa' should be
>>>> learnt even if  a person  becomes aged.
>>>> Although such learning may not  be fruitful to him during his lifetime,
>>>> in his next birth it is easier for him to acquire knowledge because of his
>>>> 'Samskaars' in his previous birth .
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> subbu
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>