[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Yet another Mahavakya in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Anand ji,

That is a wonderful quote, not sure where it occurs! Yes it is possible for
one to recollect what one heard in shravaNam and that recollection leads to
the cognition of Brahman, provided the obstacles that prevented the rise of
brahmajnAna in the past have subsequently been overcome in the intervening
period. We do hear stories of Mahatmas who ostensibly attain brahmajnAna
without any shAstra abhyAsa in the present birth, simply on account of some
samskAra triggering the recollection of the mahAvAkya which leads to jnAna
the present.

However, moksha is not an event that occurs due to jnAna though, it is ones
nature. The vRtti simply removes the veil that obscures it.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan



On Sun, 24 Oct 2021, 22:25 Anand N via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Venkataraghavan Ji,
>
> Doesn’t this in some way imply that Moksha is only possible at the time of
> Shravana?
>
> I have heard that, “Shravana kale jnanam, Jnana kale mokshah”. Maybe as an
> aside someone here knows this quote occurs.
>
> But when someone has heard it at some point, it is saved in the memory.
> Upon recollection also can’t this knowledge actively lead to moksha?
>
> Om Namo Narayanaya,
> Anand
>
> On Sun 24. Oct 2021 at 20:20, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Vinodh ji,
> >
> > On Sun, 24 Oct 2021, 14:17 Vinodh, <vinodh.iitm at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > Would you also agree that mahavakya shravana also falls under the same
> > > category of manana and nididhyasana?
> > >
> >
> > No, it does not. shabda pramANa does not need any action from the hearer
> to
> > give rise to jnAna.
> >
> > If you do see it differently, how do you explain the difference given
> that
> > > shravana also requires an action from the purusha just like the other
> two
> > > do?
> > >
> >
> > The mahAvAkya does not depend on the desire or will of the individual to
> > reveal its object - as long as the hearer understands the language and
> has
> > a functioning sense of hearing, it will give rise to shAbdajnAna, without
> > necessitating the individual to act in a particular manner or think in a
> > particular manner. He will understand even if he does not want to.
> >
> > Hence jnAna is not puruShatantra, dependent on the desire of the knower,
> it
> > is vastutantra.
> >
> > The unique thing about shabda pramANa is that it is capable of giving
> rise
> > to aparoksha jnAna sometimes.
> >
> > Specifically, the mahAvAkya is capable of giving rise to aparoksha jnAna.
> > The object of the mahAvAkya tattvamasi is consciousness, which is the
> > nature of the hearer himself.
> >
> > When the mahAvAkya is heard and the hearer understands that the tat and
> > tvam padArtha must refer to consciousness by lakshaNa, in order for there
> > to be identity referred to by the word asi, the sentence meaning that it
> > reveals is consciousness free from all upAdhi-s except the vRtti itself.
> > Therefore, the vRtti avacChinna chaitanya is naturally one with the
> viShaya
> > chaitanya, which has the same existence as the pramAtA's chaitanya. The
> > conditions of the shAbdajnAna and viShaya to be pratyaksha are met.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> >
> > Namaskaram 🙏
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 1:52 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Read this sentence as: "So if one sentence conveys two meanings, it is
> > >> not *one* vAkya, but two. "
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, 24 Oct 2021, 09:18 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Namaste Vinodh ji,
> > >>>
> > >>> Upon doing a search for the word mahAvAkya in advaitasharada, it
> > appears
> > >>> only once in the prasthAna traya bhAShya-s.
> > >>>
> > >>> In the devatAdhikaraNa of the brahmasUtra, in the sUtra भावं तु
> > >>> बादरायणोऽस्ति हि ॥ ३३ ॥ (1.3.33), Shankaracharya raises a pUrvapaksha
> > >>> wherein he uses the word mahAvAkya in the sentence - न हि
> > >>> महावाक्येऽर्थप्रत्यायकेऽवान्तरवाक्यस्य पृथक्प्रत्यायकत्वमस्ति ;
> > >>>
> > >>> However here the word mahAvAkya does not mean jIva brahma aikya
> bodhaka
> > >>> vAkya, it means a combination of words or sentences that serve to
> > convey a
> > >>> unitary import.  Jaimini in his pUrvamImAmsA sUtra has defined a
> vAkya
> > as
> > >>> अर्थैकत्वात् एकं वाक्यम् - that is, a vAkya is not merely a sentence
> -
> > it
> > >>> is a combination of words that together conveys one meaning. So if
> one
> > >>> sentence conveys two meanings, it is not vAkya, but two. Conversely,
> if
> > >>> there are many sentences that together convey the same meaning, then
> > >>> together they are one vAkya - this is called vAkyaikavAkyatA.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the context is the pUrvapakshi arguing that devatAs do not have
> > the
> > >>> right to brahmajnAna, because the portions that talk of them having
> > >>> attained liberation occur in arthavAda portions which have ekavAkyatA
> > with
> > >>> a vidhi and the mahAvAkya (the compound vAkya consisting of the vidhi
> > and
> > >>> arthavAda taken as a unitary whole) has meaning only in the
> injunction.
> > >>> Therefore, when the mahAvAkya is conveying one meaning (do the act),
> we
> > >>> must ignore the arthavAda portions (avAntara vAkya) because a part
> of a
> > >>> vAkya cannot be said to have a meaning when that part in conjunction
> > with
> > >>> the rest of the vAkya conveys a unitary meaning.
> > >>>
> > >>> That is by the by and not relevant to the topic.
> > >>>
> > >>> The only other reference by Shankaracharya that I could find is in
> the
> > >>> Vivekachudamani - here the meaning of mahAvAkya is a vAkya that
> > conveys the
> > >>> meaning of the identity of jIva and Brahman.
> > >>>
> > >>> संलक्ष्य चिन्मात्रतया यदात्मनो -
> > >>> रखण्डभावः परिचीयते बुधैः ।
> > >>> एवं महावाक्यशतेन कथ्यते
> > >>> ब्रह्मात्मनोरैक्यमखण्डभावः ॥ २५१ ॥
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Venkatraghavan
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2021, 14:07 Vinodh, <vinodh.iitm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Sri Venkatraghavan ji and other respected scholars, an additional
> > >>>> question strikes me about "mahavakya" upon further reflection.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Was this word "mahavakya" ever used by Shankara Bhagavadpada
> himself?
> > >>>> What is the first known usage of this word?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Namaskaram 🙏
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 6:13 PM 'Raghav Kumar' via advaitin <
> > >>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
> > >>>>> I recollect many Acharyas mentioning tasmAdva etastmAt atmana
> > >>>>> AkAshassambhUtaH etc as a mahavAkya since tasmAt and etAsmAt are in
> > >>>>> samAnAdhikaraNyam. That part is quite clear. There are thus many
> > mahAvAkyas
> > >>>>> other than the four canonical ones.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But one clarification on mananam etc  being action -
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> However, by “meditation” here, I mean the mananam and nididhyasanam
> > >>>>> of the statement (that is, a thorough analysis and reflection on
> the
> > >>>>> statement) that reveals that jiva is Brahman until one attains firm
> > >>>>> conviction of this Truth. Why is this required?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This is also an action only.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Mananam and nidhidhyAsanam (in the context of Advaita vedAnta) are
> of
> > >>>>> the nature of vastu-tantra manovRttis - being pramANa-based and
> > serve only
> > >>>>> to highlight the Gyaanam itself. They are surely different from
> > upAsana (be
> > >>>>> it even nirguNa upAsana) which is puruSha-tantra.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> For example mithyAtva niscaya through the yukti using the prasiddha
> > >>>>> hetu would be part of mananam. Does such mananam constitute
> > karma/upAsana?
> > >>>>> It would appear not. The yuktis used in mananam only give rise to
> > "seeing
> > >>>>> rightly" and removing false notions. All such pramANa vyApAra is
> not
> > really
> > >>>>> karma, don't you think? I do understand the commonality of the
> > result being
> > >>>>> pratibandhaka nivRtti for both karma/upAsanam and
> > mananam/nidhidhyAsanam.
> > >>>>> Yet I understand the latter to be not karma. Is that tenable?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Om
> > >>>>> Raghav
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> > >>>>> <
> >
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> > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 at 5:27 pm, 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin
> > >>>>> <advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It is also worth noting that shravanadi are called "sadhana" merely
> > >>>>> out of limitation of language and from the point of view of an
> > ajnani. This
> > >>>>> is because the Truth, which is eternally present, need not need be
> > attained
> > >>>>> as a siddhi after performing some action.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> praNAms Sri Vinod prabhuji
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hare Krishna
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Yes, jnApakaM hi shAstraM na tu kArakaM, shAstra would teach us
> only
> > >>>>> bhUta vastu ( that which is already exists) and it does not create
> > anything
> > >>>>> new.  shravaNAdi sAdhana is ofcourse for the ajnAni, who still see
> > the
> > >>>>> pramAtru, pramANa and prameya triputi rvyavahAra.  For him the
> > direct means
> > >>>>> is shravaNAdi sAdhana says bhAshyakAra : sAkshAdeva cha kAraNatvAt
> > >>>>> shravaNamanananidhidhyAsanAnAm because shruti itself says AtmA vA
> Are
> > >>>>> drashtavyaH shOtavyaH, maNtavyO nidhidhyAsitavyaH.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> bhaskar
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
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