[Advaita-l] Why did Brahman create the world?

[sreenivasa murthy]

 Dear Sri Venkataraghavan and other participants in this dialogue,

Mantra 7-25-2 of Chandogya Upanishad says : 
AtmaivEdagam sarvam ||

Mantra 2-2-12 of Mundaka upanishad says :
brahmaivEdagM viSvaM variShTham ||

Let alone avidya ,The whole manifestation has YOU /Atman/ Brahman as locus.
Is it not so?
Now the question, Why did Brahman create the world , needs ammendment.
It should read "Why 'I' created the world?".
Hence it becomes evident that the questioner should go/refer to himself
for the answer . That is the only place to go to get an authentic answer.

With respectful namaskars,
Sreenivasa Murthy whose locus is Atman



     On Saturday, 1 February, 2020, 7:23:40 PM GMT, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:  
 
 Namaste Raghav ji,
Subbuji's interpretation of nApi gocara: fits the Sloka better.

Essentially, the object of ignorance cannot be a product of ignorance
itself, because ignorance always presupposes its object - i.e the ignorance
is always 'of something', and that object cannot be the effect of
ignorance, which is logically posterior.

I had an alternative interpretation, which admittedly doesn't fit the
context as well as the above - viz., ignorance is not revealed by the mind,
its effect, but by the sAkshi. This was based on what sureshvarAchArya says
(in the naiShkarmyasiddhi quote I had provided in the email earlier) that
the effect itself is of the nature of ignorance, and therefore, ignorance
cannot experience ignorance by itself  - तस्य हि स्वरूपमेवाज्ञानं न हि
स्वतोऽज्ञानस्याज्ञानं घटते ।

However, the interpretation of gocara: as viShaya in this context fits
better - the objective of the shArIrakAkAra here is to say that it is
nirguNa chaitanya that is the locus and object of ignorance.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan


On Sat, 1 Feb 2020, 13:03 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
> Regarding gocharo'pi na bhavati, how do we address examples like the child
> can know the mother etc.?
>
> I would presume we should attach an upAdhi to the syllogism such as,
> "X cannot know X's *upAdAna* kAraNam"?
>
> Om
>
> On Sat, 1 Feb, 2020, 3:58 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Subbuji, Praveenji
> >
> > There is a Sloka from the samkshepa shAriraka that captures both ideas -
> > that the effect not only cannot be the locus of the cause and that it
> > cannot grasp / know the cause:
> >
> > आश्रयत्वविषयत्वभागिनी निर्विभागचितिरेव केवला ।
> > पूर्वसिद्धतमसो हि पश्चिमो *नाश्रयो भवति नापि गोचरः॥*
> >
> > Regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Jan 2020, 11:48 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Praveen ji,
> > >
> > > Kindly ignore this voice message as it did not record my voice
> correctly.
> > >
> > > I wanted to say:  The jiva that is a product of avidya cannot be the
> > locus
> > > and object of avidya.  Only Nirguna Brahman can be the locus and object
> > for
> > > avidya. In other words, avidya has to have Brahman for its locus and it
> > > conceals Brahman. It cannot have the jiva, which is a product of
> avidya,
> > > for its locus and object.  I recalled this after seeing your words:
> > >
> > > //..  that which is created after (if at all there is a created and an
> > > after), cannot ever know the former.//
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 5:11 PM V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > (voice note)
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > subbu
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:58 PM Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l <
> > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Namaste Raghavji,
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:43 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via
> Advaita-l <
> > > >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > I was just the thinking it would be helpful to see the sAyaNa
> > bhAShya
> > > >> for
> > > >> > that particular Rk mantra को अद्धा वेद क इह प्रवोचत् । कुत आजाता
> कुत
> > > इयं
> > > >> > विसृष्टिः  and you posted it.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thank you for that Praveen ji.
> > > >> >
> > > >> (All thanks to Yoganandaji and his team. I've just copy-pasted,
> fixing
> > > >> just
> > > >> a typo or two from http://rigveda.sanatana.in/)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Then what is the Advaita teaching all about. I understand it to
> be -
> > > >> "the
> > > >> > mind cannot do viShayIkaraNam (objectification or a concrete
> > > >> > conceptualization) of jagatkAraNam and how it 'evolved' in the
> > initial
> > > >> > stages to "become" jagat. But it's still possible for the shuddha
> > > >> > anatahkaraNam, when exposed to the mahAvAkya teaching to resolve
> in
> > to
> > > >> it's
> > > >> > source and own up "i am brahman" by way of laxyArtham of that
> > > mahAvAkya.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The mystery of creation remains but the mind's doubts about AtmA
> and
> > > the
> > > >> > sources of sorrow are destroyed thereby.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Exactly so, that is why that which is created after (if at all there
> > is
> > > a
> > > >> created and an after), cannot ever know the former. Who knows is
> > always
> > > >> the
> > > >> former; the former knows the former as there is no one else! Or
> > sticking
> > > >> to
> > > >> the context, one who knows doesn't know as to why the creation! As
> > > >> Bhagavan
> > > >> Gaudapadacharya concludes देवस्यैष स्वभावोऽयमाप्तकामस्य का स्पृहा।
> > > >>
> > > >> Kind rgds,
> > > >> --Praveen R. Bhat
> > > >> /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one
> > > know
> > > >> That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > >> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > > >>
> > > >> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > >> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > > >>
> > > >> For assistance, contact:
> > > >> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org