[Advaita-l] Question about Sri Vidyaranya's JMV & jnani matra

[Akilesh Ayyar]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:03 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 8:21 PM Akilesh Ayyar <ayyar at akilesh.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:40 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 7:52 PM Akilesh Ayyar <ayyar at akilesh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Actually all instruction is to the seeker and a jnani is no longer a
>>>>> seeker. But the seeker has to be shown, guided, on the lines of the Jnani.
>>>>> That is what the sthita prajna lakshana is all about. That is why Shankara
>>>>> opens that section with the assurance that it is attained by effort.
>>>>> Shankara is not implying 'look I am lying when I say that the Jnani's look
>>>>> upon the world as a mirage and asking you to follow that lie.'
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not lying, it's just a more or less precise description, and one
>>>> that is tailored to the audience. If a child asks why the world is the way
>>>> it is, one could say: "It is because of God."
>>>>
>>>> That is not a lie, but it is broad and imprecise. If each word in that
>>>> sentence is understood deeply, it is compatible with the highest truths of
>>>> advaita, but that may not be something the child is ready for. A closer
>>>> approximation might be that there is really no such thing as a separate
>>>> world, and that the very concept of "why" is a thought that arises from
>>>> ignorance, but that does not make the earlier answer a lie.
>>>>
>>>> The shastras give the description of the truth appropriate to the
>>>> seeker's capacity and temperament, since all verbal statements are anyhow
>>>> incomplete one way or another.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is true that at the level of inducing elementary shraddhaa, karma,
>>> upasana, there can be the 'lying'. But not at the level of immediate
>>> liberating knowledge. The aspirant is mature enough to tell the real from
>>> the unreal type of teaching. That is the reason Shankara distinguishes the
>>> pre-Jnana teaching of the Veda from the 'for-Jnana' teaching of the
>>> Upanishad.
>>>
>>
>> Well, you have already mentioned Shankara writing both "do as the jnanis
>> do and regard the world as unreal" and that there is no jnani and no
>> seeker. Must one of these then be a lie?
>>
>
> No. Even at the first teaching, the aspirant is aware of the second one.
> He comes to appreciate the second one by practicing the first one. In fact
> the two are complementary. The teaching of BG 2.16 is already given before
> the sthita prajna lakshanas are introduced.
>

Well then why can it not also be the case that the aspirant is told to
practice seeing the world as unreal, knowing that ultimately he will
appreciate the fact that he will not regard himself as seeing the world at
all?

That is all that Maharshi is saying when he says the onlookers see the
jnani eating while jnani himself notices nothing. There is no more
contradiction in that statement than in the aspirant being aware of the
second teaching you speak of while in the first.


>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>> subbu
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>