[Advaita-l] Sleep, tamas and brahman

[Venkatraghavan S]

Its probably clear what I meant, but for completion, removing a typo:

Thus Shankara is not saying that ignorance is absent in deep sleep, but
that the Atma is *free* from ignorance can be understood from the
experience of deep sleep.

On Fri, 4 May 2018, 09:37 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Praveenji, Kalyanji,
>
> If we look at the context of the sentence quoted by Kalyan ji (BUB 4.3.21
> - अत्र च एतत् प्रकृतम् — अविद्याकामकर्मविनिर्मुक्तमेव तद्रूपम् , यत्
> सुषुप्ते आत्मनो गृह्यते प्रत्यक्षत इति), the meaning that Shankara wishes
> to convey becomes clearer.
>
> The bhAShya to this mantra starts off thus:
>
> *प्रकृतः स्वयञ्ज्योतिरात्मा अविद्याकामकर्मविनिर्मुक्त इत्युक्तम् ,
> असङ्गत्वादात्मनः, आगन्तुकत्वाच्च तेषाम् ।*
> The self effulgent Atma is said to be free from ignorance, desire and
> action - because the Atma is never in association with anything, and
> because they (ignorance, desire and action) are transient / incidental.
>
> The same adjective (अविद्याकामकर्मविनिर्मुक्त) is used in the later
> sentence quoted by Kalyan ji - अत्र च एतत् प्रकृतम्
> — अविद्याकामकर्मविनिर्मुक्तमेव तद्रूपम् , यत् सुषुप्ते आत्मनो गृह्यते
> प्रत्यक्षत इति ;
> That the nature of Atma is really free from ignorance, desire and action
> is what is perceived during deep sleep.
>
> Thus Shankara is not saying that ignorance is absent in deep sleep, but
> that the Atma is absent from ignorance can be understood from the
> experience of deep sleep. The self effulgent Atma is ever asanga, whereas
> the other 3 are merely incidental, Agantuka.
>
> The force of the words is in freeing Atma of ignorance eternally (not just
> in deep sleep), not of the absence of ignorance in deep sleep per se.
> Viewed thus, there is no contradiction in saying that the bIja shakti for
> names and forms (the seed like potential for the world) is present in deep
> sleep.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On 4 May 2018 3:55 a.m., "Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:00 PM Kalyan via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This is from B U bhAshya -
> >
> > ​​
> > अत्र च एतत् प्रकृतम् — ***
> > ​​
> > अविद्याकामकर्मविनिर्मुक्तमेव तद्रूपम् ***, यत् ***सुषुप्ते***
> > ​​
> > आत्मनो गृह्यते प्रत्यक्षत इति ; 4.3.22
> >
> ​What is this गृह्यते verb doing here in निर्गुणब्रह्म of your
> interpretation?
> ​ This should at least prod one towards a possibility of misunderstanding.
> The right understanding is that its a recollection of आप्तकामम् आत्मकामम्
> which went by in 4.3.21.
>
>
> तत्र च सर्वात्मभावः स्वभावोऽस्य, एवम्
> > ***अविद्याकामकर्मादिसर्वसंसारधर्मसम्बन्धातीतं रूपमस्य, साक्षात् सुषुप्ते
> > गृह्यते*** — इत्येतद्विज्ञापितम्  4.3.34
> >
> >
> > तत्र चैतन्यज्योतिःस्वभावत्वे कस्मादिह न जानातीति यदप्राक्षीः, तत्र अयं
> > हेतुः मयोक्तः एकत्वम् , यथा स्त्रीपुंसयोः सम्परिष्वक्तयोः । तत्र अर्थात्
> > नानात्वं विशेषविज्ञानहेतुरित्युक्तं भवति ; नानात्वे च कारणम् — आत्मनो
> > वस्त्वन्तरस्य प्रत्युपस्थापिका अविद्येत्युक्तम् । ***तत्र च अविद्याया यदा
> > प्रविविक्तो भवति, तदा सर्वेण एकत्वमेव अस्य भवति ***;  4.3.21
> >
> >
> > यत आत्मकामम् — आत्मैव कामाः यस्मिन् रूपे, अन्यत्र प्रविभक्ता इव अन्यत्वेन
> > काम्यमानाः यथा जाग्रत्स्वप्नयोः, तस्य आत्मैव
> > अन्यत्वप्रत्युपस्थापकहेतोरविद्याया ***अभावात्*** — आत्मकामम् ; अत एव
> > अकाममेतद्रूपम् काम्यविषयाभावात् ; शोकान्तरम् शोकच्छिद्रं
> शोकशून्यमित्येतत्
> > , शोकमध्यमिति वा, सर्वथापि अशोकमेतद्रूपम् शोकवर्जितमित्यर्थः ॥4.3.21
> >
> >
> ​ And all the following examples show ​that just as when one desires
> something, there is lack of desire of everything else, one knows nothing
> else (=avidyA of everything else and even the nature of that object of
> desire too), similarly in deep-sleep desiring only AtmA one sleeps, there
> is objectification of this Ananda alone and one has avidyA of everything
> else, including the real nature of Atma also which cannot be objectified.
> This is my understanding which you will point as wrong. So I shall take
> support of Bhagavan Anandagiri, who if pointed out as wrong would just show
> more of the person's ignorance and ashraddhA towards sampradAya. Here goes
> TIkA under it:
>
> यद्यपि सुषुप्ते अविद्या विद्यते तथापि न सा अभिव्यक्ता अस्ति इति
> अनर्थपरिहारोपपत्तिः इत्यर्थः। There is avidyA of everything really,
> including Atma, but it is not manifest since it is is bIjAvasthA.
> ​
> gurupAdukAbhyAm,
> --Praveen R. Bhat
> /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know
> That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */ ​
>
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