[Advaita-l] Fwd: Re: "VEDA IS NO MORE veda "

[Venkatraghavan S]

Dear Subbuji,
That is true - it is the jnAna that produces the result. The question is
whether it does independently of the artha or not. Is the artha's role only
incidental?

This question is considered in one of the chapters of advaita siddhi.

1) In the case of a dream, even if we assume that only the artha is mithyA,
it is svapna jnAna in association with svapna artha that wakes up the
sleeper. The vyAghra jnAna can do its job only with a vyAghra, even if it
happens to be a svapna vyAghra. Thus artha avacChinna jnAna that is the
cause - in effect, the mithyA artha is fundamentally necessary for the
svapna jnAna's sAdhakatva. Thus a mithyA vastu does achieve an outcome.

2) The artha here is a visheShaNa to the jnAna, not an upalakshaNa. ie the
jnAna's ability to achieve its outcome is intrinsically in association with
the object and with its copresence, and not as a result of the incidental
presence of the object. If you will recall from the chandrikA vAkyArtha
sadas organised last year, the dvaitin argued that a mithyAtva vishiShTa
vastu is mithyA itself. Unlike the case discussed there, where dvitIyAbhAva
was argued by the advaitin to be an upalakshaNa of brahman, here svapna
artha is a visheShaNa of the jnAna. Ergo, a mithyAtva vishiShTa jnAna ends
up as mithyA.

3) The jnAna vritti is by nature mithyA (ie not only is it mithyA because
it is mithyAtva vishiShtam, it is svarUpata: mithyA too). In our
anivachanIya khyAti prakriyA, bhrama and bhrama jnAna are both adhyAsa -
sarpa is arthAdhyAsa and the sarpa jnAna is jnAnAdhyAsa - thus both mithyA.
The siddhikAra gives a few hetus for this - 1) स्वरूपतो बाधाभावे
विषयतोऽप्यबाधप्रसङ्गात् - jnAna has to be intrinsically mithyA, because
without the sublation of bhrama jnAna, the bhrama will also not be
sublated. 2)  विषय इव मिथ्यात्वप्रयोजकदोषादिसमवहितसामग्र्या ज्ञानेऽपि
अविशेषाच्च  Like objects, jnAna too is endowed with contributory factors
such as defects, which imply its mithyAtva.

Thus because 1)artha is a contributory cause to jnAna's sAdhakatva,
2)artha's visheShaNatva leads to mithyAtva avacChinna jnAna being mithyA
too and 3) bhrama jnAna is svarUpata: mithyA in anirvachanIya khyAti, our
argument that a mithyA veda can lead to an outcome such as avidyA nivritti
and moksha nishcaya is tenable.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan


On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:42 PM, V Subrahmanian<v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Venkat ji,
>
> In Advaita too, it is the knowledge (of the dream tiger) that results in
> the person waking up.  For it is the vyaaghra-buddhi produced by the
> sighting of the vyaaghra that instantly produces fear and he wakes up.
> Upon waking up, the baadha of the erroneous buddhi/fear happens.  I base
> this on the Bhashya: 2.1.14 BSB  अतश्चेदं शास्त्रीयं
> ब्रह्मात्मत्वमवगम्यमानं स्वाभाविकस्य शारीरात्मत्वस्य *बाधकं *सम्पद्यते, *रज्ज्वादिबुद्धय
> इव **सर्पादिबुद्धीनाम्* ; *बाधिते *च शारीरात्मत्वे तदाश्रयः समस्तः
> स्वाभाविको व्यवहारो बाधितो भवति,   It is the right 'buddhi' that dispels
> the erroneous 'buddhi'.  So, in the bhrama too, it is not the snake per se
> that causes fear, etc. but the snake-buddhi, snake-perception/cognition/imagination
> that causes the effects.  Thus, when the Veda is the 'tiger' in the dream,
> it is the Veda-produced jnana (like tiger-induced knowledge/fear) that
> produces the awakening to the Truth while the Veda and the jnana it
> produced belong to the vyavaharika.  In our case, the veda-buddhi, since it
> gets baadhita, is not real.
>
> Some years ago, in a private exchange with a Dvaitin I had to say the
> above, citing the above bhashya passage to clarify that it is one buddhi
> that dispels another buddhi.
>
> Your response is welcome.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
> Regards
>> Venkatraghavan
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