[Advaita-l] Sleep, tamas and brahman

[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com> wrote:

> // The Upanishad only gives deep sleep
>  as an analogy to the liberated state //
>
> I would disagree here. The upanishad literally equates deep sleep to the
> highest state. It is not a mere analogy.
>

That is not the impression that anyone, any translator or commentator has
got from the Upanishad.  In case you have arrived at such a conclusion,
well, that is not substantiated in the least by the Upanishad. There is
everything in the mantras in that section to clearly show that it is an
analogy.

>
>
> //If the latter were meant by
>  the shruti, everyone will, with zero effort, become
>  liberated by just going to sleep.//
>
>
> This is exactly what the upanishad suggests. Everyone gets liberated in
> deep sleep, without any effort.
>

This is again an offshoot of the earlier misunderstanding of the
Upanishad.

>
>
> //This is because in sleep there is no
>  room for sattva (knowledge/deliberation/sadhana) and
>  activity, karma, rajas. //
>
>
> Ok. But I feel that there is a contradiction in equating deep sleep to
> tamas and highest state respectively.
>

Again, a lot of things have been missed.  Nowhere does the Upanishad
'equate' sleep with the liberated state.  If such were the case, then sleep
would have been taught as a substitute for liberation.  Nowhere such a
teaching is given out.

>
>
> //Shankara has pointed out that
>  in sleep the jiva 'merges' in saguna brahman and not
>  the nirguna brahman.//
>
>
> At least in the brihadaranyaka, it is mentioned that the individual is
> embraced by the supreme Self (becomes one with supreme Self), aka nirguNa
> brahman, in deep sleep.
>

This misconception arises because of not reading / understanding the
mantras / bhashya.

>
>
> //If the latter, he says, the jiva will
>  not emerge from sleep as that will be liberation: //
>
>
> Shankara infact asks a similar question but bypasses it in the
> brihadaranyaka.
>

Could you show the exact passage?

>
>
> On a related note, the brihadaranyaka and mandukya seem to be giving
> different teachings. For the former, deep sleep is as good as nirguNa
> brahman. For the latter, there is a fourth state turiya above deep sleep,
> which is nirguNa brahman.
>

In fact Shankara makes a statement showing the similarity between the two
Upanishads:  In his introduction to the third brahmana of the fourth
chapter he says:

अत्र च जाग्रत्स्वप्नसुषुप्ततुरीयाण्युपन्यस्तानि अन्यप्रसङ्गेन — इन्धः,
> प्रविविक्ताहारतरः, सर्वे प्राणाः, स एष नेति नेतीति ।


Swami Madhavananda:  ·Here, in a different connection,(1) the states of
wakefulness, dream, profound sleep and transcendence have been introduced
in the words, 'Indha,' 'Has finer food,' 'The different vital forces,' and
'This self is That which has been described as "Not this, not this," '

He adds a footnote: 1. To show the order of gradual emancipation.

Thus, the two Upanishads teach the highest through the same methodology;
only that the Brihadaranyaka gives explicit examples like a fish traversing
from bank to bank, a couple in love, a bird returning to its abode, etc.
which are not there in the Mandukya. In both the Upanishads the 'gradual'
emanicipation is shown through the three states to the transcendental.

regards

--------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 4/30/18, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Sleep, tamas and brahman
>  To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  Date: Monday, April 30, 2018, 1:57 AM
>
>
>
>  On Sat,
>  Apr 28, 2018 at 7:34 PM, Kalyan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
> vedanta.org>
>  wrote:
>  Namaste
>
>
>
>  The brihadaranyaka upanishad equates deep sleep with the
>  highest state of brahman.
>
>  The Upanishad only gives deep sleep
>  as an analogy to the liberated state because there is no
>  experienceable duality, no identities of jivas as so and so,
>  no misery, there is explicit peace and hence the state is
>  called samprasaada.  The comparison is only instructional,
>  to enable the aspirant to get an idea of the liberated
>  state.  Vidyaranya says in the Panchadashi, on a different
>  context, the negation/sublation of jagat means only the firm
>  conviction that it is mithya and not its disappearance from
>  one's vision/experience.  If the latter were meant by
>  the shruti, everyone will, with zero effort, become
>  liberated by just going to sleep.
>
>
>  Why is sleep then, associated with tamas in the bhagavad
>  gita?
>
>  This is because in sleep there is no
>  room for sattva (knowledge/deliberation/sadhana) and
>  activity, karma, rajas.  In fact the 6th chapter of the
>  Gita prescribes moderate sleep and moderate waking for the
>  Yogi.  This is because, without the required quantum of
>  sleep, even as modern physicians, etc. agree, one cannot
>  pursue sadhana properly. The body needs a certain amount of
>  sleep.  The cosmic correspondence with individual sleep is
>  pralaya. This is a must since what has been created has to
>  come to a resolution, dissolution, so as to enable the next
>  cyclical creation.  That is why pralaya is also a tamasic
>  function of Brahman.
>
>
>  Second question - vide the brihadaranyaka, can we say that
>  sleeping is a sAdhana in itself?
>
>  No. Sleep is not a sadhana in
>  itself. As shown above, sleep, in moderate amount, is
>  required for conscious sadhana; therefore sadhana is a
>  conscious, wakeful activity. Shankara has pointed out that
>  in sleep the jiva 'merges' in saguna brahman and not
>  the nirguna brahman. If the latter, he says, the jiva will
>  not emerge from sleep as that will be liberation: yad gatvaa
>  na nivartante ...of the 15th chapter of the Gita. So too, in
>  pralaya the jivas/bhutas merge in the saguna brahman, only
>  to emerge later in srishti.
>  regardssubbu
>
>
>  Regards
>
>  Kalyan
>
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