[Advaita-l] cloning and inevitable mrutyu

[Nithin Sridhar]

A typo in the last email. "This happens mostly towards 4th Month" (And not
4th week)

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Nithin Sridhar <sridhar.nithin at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Raghav ji,
>
> The Hrdaya mentioned in the texts is not a reference to physical heart or
> the heart beat. So, your reference to heart beating has no bearing on the
> Dauhrdi status in my reading. Hrdaya is a reference to seat of
> consciousness, the manifestation of Jiva inside the fetus and is not a
> reference to physical heart. And this happens mostly towards end of 4th
> week.
>
> Regarding your question about whether Abortion is Adharma, I would like to
> direct you to my other article in the series- http://indiafacts.org/
> abortion-dharmic-perspective-iv-abortion-murder/
>
> It is a 4-part article, pl read all of them.
>
> You may want to also check out this talk I gave on the issue wherein I
> have discussed some of the questions you have raised-
> https://youtu.be/IzZrjqNphPo
>
> I am not aware of any reference to abortion issue by the revered Acharyas.
>
> Regards,
> Nithin
>
>
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> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Nitin ji
>> You have written a commendable article on Abortion from a Dharmic
>> perspective with meticulous references from the traditional texts. Thank
>> you for the same. I had been looking for such an article for some time
>> now.
>> Your articles are an excellent resource on an important dharmic issue.
>>
>> While there are many points of importance, one issue is about whether a
>> foetus with a beating heart and which can feel pain is to be considered as
>> having the rights of an independent jiiva or not. You have suggested based
>> on texts, of course,  a 16 month cut-off, after which the foetus is a
>> fullfledged individual living being. And even before that, those who
>> abort,
>> lose their varNa and have committed what is legally labelled homicide not
>> amounting to murder. But the general sense I get is that abortion before
>> 16
>> weeks is equivalent an accidental killing. Do it's left to the choice of
>> the couple?
>>
>> This topic is inherently painful to contemplate upon but we have to try
>> and
>> be objective. A few points I wished to share -
>> 1. The limit of 16 weeks for categorizing foetus as a living individual,
>> may be more of an indicative nature and the dauhRdi status where there are
>> two hearts beating in the enciente happens as early as 6 weeks into
>> pregnancy. And most definitely by the 8th week. Fetal pulse is clearly
>> felt
>> from them on. The functioning heart is a sign of consciousness being
>> associated with the foetus, surely. As you wrote -
>> In the fourth month all the limbs and organs (of the body of the embryo)
>> become more potent and the fetus is endowed with consciousness owing to
>> the
>> formation of viscus of the heart (Hrdaya). As heart is the seat of
>> consciousness, so as the heart becomes potent, it is endowed with
>> consciousness and hence it expresses its desire for things of taste, smell
>> etc. (through the longings of its mother).
>>
>> The only factor is that this heart functioning etc starts at week 5 and is
>> clearly present by week 12 rather than week 16?
>>
>> And the foetus feels pain because, the thalamus and cortex *start* getting
>> connected from 12 to 20 weeks. So killing a foetus at even 12 weeks
>> amounts
>> to killing a living being with a beating heart and which can feel pain.
>> Although the complete connections are there only after about 16 to 20
>> weeks, there is evidence to indicate touch and pain in a foetus which is
>> even 12 weeks old. Please see this link of for a visual representations of
>> a foetus at 12 weeks.
>> https://in.pinterest.com/pin/181481059958351131/
>>
>> Or
>> https://goo.gl/images/gIUS63
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.Two authentic shastra scholars one a senior Swami who had also studied
>> some of the smritis and another a grihastha paNDita held that the abortion
>> is a highly adharmic action at *all* stages of foetal development. Social
>> ostracism was only a shade less than capital punishment . The only
>> exceptions were to save the life of the mother etc. There was no question
>> of a couple choosing to abort since it was inconvenient or unplanned.
>>
>> One last question - are there any spoken or written pronouncements of the
>> respected Shankaracharya Mahasamnidhanam of Sringeri or of Kanchi on this
>> issue of permissibility of abortion before 16 weeks ?
>>
>> Thank you
>> Regards
>>
>> Raghav
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue 24 Apr, 2018, 5:43 PM Nithin Sridhar via Advaita-l, <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > This article sheds light on how and when Jiva enters a fetus-
>> > http://indiafacts.org/abortion-dharmic-perspective-iii-jiva-
>> enter-fetus/
>> >
>> > This may provide some perspective.
>> >
>> > <
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>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 5:23 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Venkatraghavanji - PraNAms
>> > > Just couple of comments.
>> > >
>> > >    On Tuesday, April 24, 2018, 3:04:08 AM EDT, Venkatraghavan S via
>> > > Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  "But can we give a precise
>> > > reason why an electronic entity cannot be considered a jiva with the
>> > usual
>> > > faculties of iccha, GYAna, and kriya and having sanchita karma etc."
>> > >
>> > > Namaste,
>> > > An interesting thought experiment.
>> > > 1) The birth of such a 'jIva' would break the laws of karma.
>> > > How can an android jIva have sanchita karma, ie what would be the
>> > > receptacle for sanchita karma for an android jIva? If you say the
>> > sUkshma /
>> > > kAraNa sharIra, then that is created at the same time as the sthUla
>> > > sharIra. -------------Sada: Therefore Suukshma/karana shareera need
>> not
>> > be
>> > > created. Upanishads use the word - upavishati - it enters. An
>> appropriate
>> > > jiiva enters into the sthuulashareera if that is conducive to exhaust
>> its
>> > > vaasanaas.
>> > > Question, of course, is what jiiva wants that type of shareera to
>> exhaust
>> > > its vaasanaas?
>> > > To the extent that I am familiar with programming, the emotions of the
>> > > robot also are programmed - just as a computer can be programmed to
>> play
>> > > chess. The process of selection of the emotions are also
>> pre-programmed,
>> > > given the input information and multitude of choices (paths). Hence,
>> just
>> > > as the virus and bacteria and lower forms of the jiivas are
>> > pre-programmed
>> > > to follow particular responses to the external stimulus, here the
>> > > programmer(s) take the role of Iswara(s) to set the patterns of the
>> > > responses and also selection process to respond to the external
>> stimulus.
>> > > The robots operate until the program(s) fails. They do not have a
>> will to
>> > > perform independently of the programmed paths.
>> > > Hari Om!Sadananda
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Nithin S
>> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Nithin S
>



-- 
Nithin S