[Advaita-l] cloning and inevitable mrutyu

[Jay Kumar]

Dear Shri. Raghavji,
Namaste. Once again I request you to call me If you are keen to know the unique facts and glories of the Consciousness or the ‘Bhramman’ in which living and non-living beings 'appear'. Many of your questions are related only to some aspects of 'sentience' of the Consciousness. These aspects and many more unique features of the living beings cannot be there in any scientific gadget.    . 

My request is due to my limitations of typing using screen reader software. Most of the days, I am free from 10 am to 1pm.
 
Regards,
Jayakumar

-----Original Message-----
From: Advaita-l [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] On Behalf Of Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l
Sent: 24 April 2018 13:57
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Cc: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] cloning and inevitable mrutyu

Namaste Jayakumar ji
Thank you for the inputs. My additional question is - on what basis can we categorically rule out self-judgement in the case of a putative android which lets say looks and outwardly mimics a human to the point of even cribbing about life or his lot and saying/vocalising through a speech generator - "I am small and insignificant" etc.

I said additional question becoz even  without complexes and self-judgement a mammal like a cow (which we assume does not have complexes) is accorded jiiva status but not a sophisticated speaking  robot claiming "I am small." What could be the reasons for this?

The same panchabhUtas are the constituents of the gross bodies of both the regular jiiva and a robot mouthing "I am small and insignificant". Yet there is some significant difference between the way matter is organized in living beings as compared to an android. We can use different words like Jada and cetana. Or in a different way chidAbhAsa and its absence etc, but there is a definite material difference which is currently not clearly understood, between the way matter is put together in living and nonliving systems.

BhAShya too mentions this in katha  upaniShad someplace. And I remember in upadesha sAhasrI too,  the arising of antahkaraNa and ahamkAra is said to be mediated by an almost magical arrangement of the same constituents of matter that go to make up a stone or a chair etc, just as any metal surface is not a mirror but some specially polished surfaces catch the reflection of all-pervading consciousness and these are the individual jiiva-s.

Om
Raghav

On Tue 24 Apr, 2018, 12:00 PM Jay Kumar via Advaita-l, < advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Shri Raghavji and to all,
>
> Questioning Vedanta may appear  proper  only when the scientist claim 
> to have produced and demonstrate an entity with self-judgement, 
> un-programmed feelings, un-inhibited aspirations, self-complex etc. 
> etc…. (on a futuristic day even when we will  have our purposeful answer).
>
> Coming to the next statement :
> “the question is, can we extend the privilege to still lower entities 
> like insects (yes), viruses (doubtful), plants(yes), stones (no). But 
> where do we draw the line?”
>
> Answer – ‘Drawing the line’ : The precise answer is the theory of 
> causation involving 3 types of karmas, re-birth, the ‘as though’ 
> bondage, wisdom, liberation etc.  is applicable to the ‘beings’ that 
> have ‘Individuality’ whereas the individuality itself is ‘unreal’!
>
> Contradictions or clarification (if needed) can be shared over phone
>
> S K Jayakumar
> Mobile : 9916494729
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Advaita-l [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] 
> On Behalf Of Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l
> Sent: 24 April 2018 10:51
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Cc: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] cloning and inevitable mrutyu
>
> Namaste
>
> A more difficult to answer question would be of the kind - How do we 
> decide a given entity is a jiva with sanchita karma or is it just an 
> Android or machine which merely mimics speech, facial features etc.
> I.e., a sophisticated robot ?
>
> Any clone is generally initially cultured in vitro (i.e., in a "test
> tube") and later transplanted in vivo (into a uterus) and later the 
> baby is delivered in a regular way. And given its biological/organic 
> physiology and neuronal architecture it's quite credibly a jiva in its 
> own right with its own sanchita karma etc. This is my understanding.
>
> Now if we consider a futuristic android (a real android not its 
> namesake smartphone OS !) which has a brain consisting of just 
> electronic devices with no neuronal structures, it's does not sound 
> believable if some people like the proponents of strong-AI claim it's 
> a human being who has the faculties and capacities and consequently the rights of a human being.
> (Others like Roger Penrose contradict this). But can we give a precise 
> reason why an electronic entity cannot be considered a jiva with the 
> usual faculties of iccha, GYAna, and kriya and having sanchita karma etc.
>
> Another related question - we can talk of higher mammals like deer, 
> cows etc., as having sanchita karma etc. Now the question is, can we 
> extend the privilege to still lower entities like insects (yes), 
> viruses (doubtful), plants(yes), stones (no). But where do we draw the line?
>
> The concept of chidAbhAsa is to some extent helpful in figuring this 
> out since it (chidAbhAsa) does indeed depend on the underlying 
> neuronal biology and not merely on the superficial faculties of speech 
> and motion which a robot or android can mimic.
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
> On Tue 24 Apr, 2018, 9:17 AM Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l, < 
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > praNAms Sri Sada prabhuji and Sri Venkateshwaran prabhuji Hare 
> > Krishna
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification.  Just wondering what would be karma / 
> > dharma for these cloning creatures :-) Perhaps it is their karma 
> > phala to get created through cloning technology :-)
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
> >
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