[Advaita-l] How can the reality of brahman be proven?

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:21 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Everything waters down to Sat, Existence. None can succeed in proposing
> the destruction/non-existence of Sat. It is on this extremely sound, strong
> logical basis that the Vedanta has established the eternality, nityatvam,
> satyatvam, of Brahman. If one contemplates on the Sat one will easily see
> that one is that Sat, which is the teaching of Tat Tvam Asi. Sat is Tat.
> The shruti is only an aid in bringing our attention to Sat.
>

The Upanishad, for example, the Taittiriya, has a very powerful statement:
असन्नेव स भवति असद्ब्रह्मेति वेद चेत् | अस्ति ब्रह्मेति चेद्वेद सन्तमेनं
ततो विदुरिति |

'He who denies (the existence) of Brahman (which is verily Existence), is
himself denying his own existence; he becomes non-existent. On the other
hand, he who knows Brahman exists (in the form of I am Brahman, the
unnegatable Existence), is celebrated as the Existence Itself (by the
knowers of Brahman).'

It is such declarations in the Vedanta that has made it attractive for
thinking minds from all over the world. Especially the Advaita Vedanta does
not promote dogmatic belief for a person to be a thinker of the Vedantic
Truth. All other systems, being abrahamic and theological, have no room for
thinking minds as they impose belief in the existence of Vaikuntha or any
other deity's abode for one to pursue their system. If the loka and deity
are removed from their systems they cease to exist.  In Advaita alone no
particular deity or loka is insisted for one to pursue the Atma Vichara. A
deity is a support for someone who has not yet found his bearings. The word
'Deva' is from the root 'div' which means that which is splendrous. That is
the Atman, Brahman, the Self-luminous (not physical luminosity)
Consiousness, Existence. It is in Advaita alone one can realize his
ever-existent, ever-liberated, never-bound, reality even when alive. In
other systems, there is the contingency of his going to some abode that is
not here. Shankara has said in the Mundakopanishat that such propositions
are unvedantic.

vs


>
> vs
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:04 AM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Kalyan via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > //The answer becomes easy if you change Brahman to Self. Because in
>> Advaita
>> > both are one and the same. How can you prove you yourself exist? Do you
>> > need a proof? Or not? Do you have doubt you are existing or not? Do you
>> > need faith in Sruti to tell you you are existing?//
>> >
>> > Namaste
>> >
>> > There is a self-evident sense of self in me right now. But there is no
>> > proof that this sense of self is permanent. In fact, we see people
>> taking
>> > birth and undergoing death everyday. I dont remember having a sense of
>> self
>> > before my birth. Nor do I know what will happen after my death.
>> >
>> > Now one may say - I dont remember doesn't mean it did not exist. Fair
>> > enough. But we are talking about proof. One needs to show that my sense
>> of
>> > self existed whether or not I remember it.
>> >
>> > If it were so simple, then even nAstikas would have accepted brahman.
>>
>>
>> Your argument is like Kshanika Vaada Buddhists but it is destroyed by Adi
>> Sankara easily in Ghata Bhashya. When you say there is no permanent sense
>> of self there must be something in the background seeing the changing
>> sense
>> of self. Otherwise how you say it is changing? For any change to be called
>> as change there must be something to observe the change and that something
>> must be unchanging. That unchanging observer is Brahman and your true
>> Self.
>>
>> That Unchanging Observer will remain throughout your life. But you cannot
>> prove it dies with death of body Or it was dead before birth. The burden
>> is
>> on you to prove it was not existing before birth and after death of body.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>
>> -Venkatesh
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