[Advaita-l] Sri Shankara Declares

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Aditya Kumar Prabhuji
Hare Krishna


A : The objects are perceived by their respective indriyas. We can hear only through ears and see only through eyes. So objects, by definition, correspond to their respective indriyas. However, the panchendriyas are not in play in dreams. Hence when it is called a dream 'object', it is not taken in the literal sense.


Ø   Yes, to perceive the objects in the respective states Atman uses same tools hence shruti attributes same karaNa to vishva and taijasa as well, saptAnga ekOnavimshati mukhaH.  Hence when we are dreaming we don’t feel we are seeing / experiencing objects in dream without any senses…and you agree our anubhava of dreaming does not cheat us by giving the strange experience like seeing through ears and smelling through eyes ☺ even if it happens in that state we, the dreamer quite naturally accept it as ‘natural’ ☺




>  well when we look at these things with the above view point, the answer is quite clear, all 'socalled' objects hold water only in its respective domain :-)

A : The Vedas themselves consider pratyaksha pramana - a valid means of knowledge. This honour is given to jagrat avastha but why not svapna if both are exactly the same? All the other pramanas like inference etc are based on jagrat avastha. If objects in waking state serve only the utility in jagrat avastha, then does that mean we have to study the Vedas separately in dream avastha as well? If someone gets moksha/realizes the self in waking state, then that person could be a hedonist in dream state and should start all over again?

The objects serve their purpose when they come in touch with their respective indriyas. That is the reason dream state can never be a pramana and that is also the main difference between jagrat and svapna.


Ø   I quite agree with it, bhAshyakAra is quite clear in svapna darshana and jAgrat sAdhana, he clarifies,  in svapna we can see ONLY karma phala (saMskAra vishesha vAsana of jAgrat is svapna says bhAshyakAra)  and we don’t accrue fresh karma phala by doing karma in svapna.  ( drushvaiva na krutvA ityarthaH, puNyaMcha puNya phalaM, papaM cha pApa phalaM says shruti while explaining svapnAnubhava) .    So, jAgrat is the most ideal state to do sAdhana and to get jnana and that jnana reveals the fact that Atman is beyond these avasthA-s and avasthA-s are depend on Atma prakAsha / jyOti.  But when we impartially doing jignAsa about avasthAtraya prakriya, we should not be biased  in favor of ONLY waking state and taking other two states are subsequent state or subservient  to  waking state.  We have to adopt sAkshi drushti by disassociating ourselves from jAgrat avasthA to do impartial analysis of avasthA traya.

 >  the mAndUkya, kArika-s and bhAshya on it vehemently argue to prove both waking and dream are one and the same and Atman is avasthAteeta.  Shruti also elsewhere says tasya traya avasathA trayi svapnAH :-) But it does not deny the srushti of Ishwara which is available for us in jAgrat avasthA.  Hence bhAshyakAra elsewhere clearly differentiates the two states and categorically says that in dream objects there is no 'smell' of paramArtha where as for the srushti , which is available for our day to day transaction, Ishwara is the both material and efficient cause.

A : The MK only draws similarities between the two states in relation to sushupti. Neither Shankara nor Gaudapada say they are the same. But that is only my understanding.


Ø   I sincerely hope re-visit to these works would throw more light on avasthAtraya prakriya as per Advaita vedAnta.


>  As you know all these things need to be understood keeping different prakriya-s in mind.

A : Well it's like two completely different versions of Advaita.


Ø   Yes, but to draw the homogenous truth from different versions ☺ But I agree with you,  we have to be very careful when defending the similarities between jAgrat and svapna ☺


Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar