[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata

[Kalyan]

Vidyasankar

Yes, I was a previous member of the list. You can find some of my posts in the archives. You can see here for example - 

http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2012-February/

Having said that, I dont believe I have to prove anything to you. You dont need to boss around just because you are a moderator.

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/22/17, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
 To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Cc: "Sriram Sankaranarayanan" <ssriram1992 at icloud.com>
 Date: Monday, May 22, 2017, 5:14 PM
 
 
 On Sun, May 21, 2017 at
 12:59 AM, Kalyan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedan
 ta.org> wrote:
 For all my statements, I
 provided a logical explanation. If they looked like personal
 attacks to you, I cant help it.
 Of course, you can help it, Kalyan. If what you
 consider to be a logical explanation does come across as
 being logical to others on this list, then they wouldn't
 be trying to refute you. Convincing your fellow man that you
 do indeed have a logical foundation supporting you is an
 art. It is such one-liners from you that set the combative
 tone and become personal attacks. 
 
 If you cannot find a better manner of
 communication, a method that steps away from blanket
 assertions that you can't help it, do realize that your
 respondents also "can't help it." The only
 person who is making things personal here, while claiming
 that they aren't, is you. After all, you are the one who
 already made a grandiose accusation that this list is a
 coterie, so if people take your subsequent statements as
 being personal attacks, they have good reason to think
 so. 
 I'm curious. You were introduced from this
 email ID as a new member, only on Feb 26 2017. I just
 checked and confirmed that there are zero posts to this list
  from you, i.e. from this email ID, through all of 2016 and
 January-February 2017.
 Every one of the posts you have made in March,
 April and May of 2017 revolves around the question, whose is
 avidyA. When pointed to gItAbhAshya 13.2, you dismissed that
 with a one-liner, saying you don't see anything there
 that resolves the question to your satisfaction. In another
 post, you asked for explanations from list members with
 reference to advaita AchAryas, not with their own thoughts.
 Yet you had already proved that a reference to the writing
 of the premier advaita AchArya was not sufficient for your
 liking.
 All your responses and queries to various list
 members over these three months have been unduly dismissive,
 aggressive and negatively structured. Your introductory note
 mentioned that you had an interest in science, philosophy
 and history. I've seen no contribution from you so far
 that bears out your interest in science and
 history. 
 Obviously, most of the rest of us ignoramuses
 think that your questions are being thrown out merely as
 rhetorical devices, and not as a genuine way of seeking
 answers or leading to genuine intellectual discussions that
 can lead to clarity. Over these three months, your
 predominant method of interaction with long-standing list
 members has been confrontational. If you do not intend your
 questions to be merely rhetorical, this ball is also in your
 court, to take a different approach. If you want to have a
 genuine discussion, convince those whom you are talking to,
 not by painting yourself into a corner saying that you
 can't help it, but by indeed saying and doing something
 to demonstrate that you will actually help it. Else, all you
 are doing is indulging in your own confirmation biases.
 
 Be that as it may, you have deduced, from just three months
 of being involved with list discussions, from this email ID,
 that this list is a coterie. I applaud your powers of
 deduction and at analyzing the behaviors and motivations of
 people whom you haven't even met or interacted with in
 any positive manner over that very short time period. Be
 aware that just as you have judged other list members over
 the last three months as having formed a coterie, the others
 are also judging you, so don't expect that your excuse
 of "I can't help it" cuts any ice with anybody
 here. As a three-month new member of a twenty-one year old
 list, it would behoove you to adjust yourself to the group
 dynamic and not expect that everybody else on this group
 should accommodate your disruption, just because you
 "can't help it."
 The reason I've emphasized "from this
 email ID" is that the totality of the things you have
 said leads me to conclude that you had been a member of this
 list in the past, under a different ID. That is the only
 arthApatti that can explain what is happening here.
 Nevertheless, we admit members in good faith and we expect
 you to operate in good faith, but I strongly suspect that
 you are not.
 
 What were your expectations when joining Advaita-L in
 Feb 2017?
 
 That you would ask, "whose is ajnAna?," wait for
 answers and then respond with one-liners that basically
 say, 
 
 "I don't like Sankara's answer,"
 "I don't like Madhusudana's answers,"
 "I don't like any of your answers, because you are
 all not traditional advaita AcAryas"
 
 and then all of us would gaze wonder-struck at you,
 magically lose our coterie-hood and praise your logical
 acumen?
 Your response could be that you were not a member
 of this list under a different name in the past, but had
 accessed our public archives from before Feb 2017. If so,
 you would have had much more time than three months to come
 to your conclusions about us. In that case, our being a
 coterie should have also been readily apparent to you well
 in advance. I wonder what motivated you towards joining us
 then. What was it that prompted you to tell yourself,
 "here's a coterie, let me ask to join them, so that
 I can tell them what a coterie they are"?
 
 Personally, when I see that an online forum has no place for
 me, I leave it alone and don't even ask to join in on
 their discussions. Joining in and complaining within three
 months that there is a coterie here that excludes you
 reveals extremely poor judgement on your part. No group
 likes a newcomer who is a whiner and comes with a huge sense
 of entitlement.
 Your alternative would be to accept that you had
 indeed been a member of this list in the past. If so, do
 yourself a favor and let us all know what used to be your
 old email ID from which you had participated on this list.
 It just might help other list members reevaluate their own
 attitudes towards you and your questions. Then again, it
 might just reinforce what they already think of
 you.
 Good luck.
 Vidyasankar
                    ps. Prove
 us all wrong about your attitude and give yourself a chance
 to prove yourself wrong about this list being a coterie.
 Prove me wrong for suspecting that you used to be a member
 of the list in the past who reappeared three months ago
 under a new email ID.