[Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata

[Sriram Sankaranarayanan]

Dear Kalyan ji,

While kindly advising you to refrain from ad hominem (attacking the arguing
person rather than the argument) I would like to answer  you.

Please read the link sent by Sri Subramaniam ji. Appayya Dikshita is indeed
saying that "if you can pick individual phrases from Ramayana Mahabharata
etc and claim Shiva is Jeeva, it is not difficult to pick isolated phrases,
or even chapters to show Rama and Krishna are jeeva. He just showed that
with clever choice of selecting stanzas, even the counter argument can be
implied. All that Sri  Appayya Dikshita claims finally is Hari-Hara abheda.

It is the same paramatma who is brahma, shiva, Hari or Indra.
"Sa brahma sa shiva sa hari saendra "


On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 3:33 PM Kalyan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> I have touched upon only Rama. The idea that the Mahabharata considers
> Krishna as not Ishwara, is not even worth refuting. It is hilarious. At so
> many places in the Mahabharata is Krishna described as Ishwara, that it is
> pointless to list them all. Appayya Dikshita ultimately comes out as a very
> poor reader of the great epic.
>
> Regards
> Kalyan
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/20/17, Kalyan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
>  To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  Cc: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>  Date: Saturday, May 20, 2017, 6:40 PM
>
>  Appayya Dikshitha probably has not studied
>  the entire Mahabharata. In Shanti parvan, when Vishnu shows
>  his Vishwaroopa to Narada, Vishnu says that he will be born
>  as Dasaratha's son Rama.
>
>  sandhau tu samanuprApte tretAyAM
>  dvAparasya cha |
>  rAmo dAsharathirbhUtvA bhaviShyAmi
>  jagatpatiH || Mbh 12.326.78
>
>  Thus, the Mahabharata itself
>  establishes Rama as Ishwara. Moreover Valmiki Ramayana also
>  considers Rama as Ishwara. One must not study a text in bits
>  and pieces.
>
>  Regards
>  Kalyan
>
>  ------------------------------------------
>  On Sat, 5/20/17, V Subrahmanian via
>  Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  wrote:
>
>   Subject: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and
>  Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
>   To: "A discussion group for Advaita
>  Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>   Cc: "V Subrahmanian" <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>   Date: Saturday, May 20, 2017, 3:26 AM
>
>   A post on the above topic is available
>  here
>   for reading:
>
>
> https://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2017/05/20/rama-and-krishna-are-jiva-s-mahabharata/
>
>
>   regards
>   subrahmanian.v
>
>
>   In the short work 'Bhārata sāraga
>   sangraha stotram', Sri Appayya
>  Dikshita
>   concludes by pointing out that Rama
>  and
>   Krishna were jiva-s, endowed with
>   karma, delusion, etc. on the
>  authority
>   of the Mahabharata:
>
>   गोप्तारं ततो
>   गच्छेत्
>
>  सरव्यास्तीर्थमुत्तमम्
>   ।
>   तत्र रामो गतः
>   स्वर्गं
>
>  सभृत्यबलवाहनः ॥
>   देहं
>   त्यक्त्वा
>  दिवं यातः
>
>  स्थास्यतीन्द्रस्य
>   वैभवात् ।’
>
>   [Rama went to svarga along with his
>   retinue, after giving up the body,
>  and
>   remains there with Indra's lordship.]
>
>   इति
>
>  गोप्रतारतीर्थमहिम्ना
>   श्रीरामस्य
>
>  स्वर्गप्रतिष्ठावचनात्;
>   सभापर्वणि
>   यमसभावर्णने -
>
>   Having thus proclaimed the greatness
>  of
>   Go-pratāra, Sri Rama's settlement
>   in Svarga, the sabhā parvan of the
>   Mahabharata while describing the
>   Assembly Hall of Yama further says:
>
>   तस्यां
>   राजर्षयः
>  पुण्यास्तथा
>
>  देवर्षयोऽमराः ।
>   यमं वैवस्वतं
>   तात
>  प्रहृष्टाः
>   पर्युपासते ॥
>   ययातिर्नहुषः
>
>  पूरुर्मान्धाता सोमको
>   नृगः ।
>
>
>   इत्यारभ्य
>
>  स्वर्गप्राप्त्यनन्तरं
>
>  यमसभायामास्थाय
>   तमुपासीनानां
>   राजर्षीणां
>   परिगणनेन,
>   ’रामो
>  दाशरथिश्चैव
>   लक्षमणश्च
>  प्रतर्दनः’
>   इति परिगणनेन च
>  सोऽपि
>
>  कर्माधीनलोकप्राप्तिको
>   जीवविशेषः
>  स्यात् ।
>
>   In the Assembly Hall of Yama are
>   present: Rajarshi-s with puṇya,
>   devarshi-s, deva-s, who happily
>   meditate upon Yama. Also are Yayati,
>   Nahusha, Puru, Māndhāta, Somaka,
>   Nṛga. Having enumerated those
>  present in
>   the Assembly and meditating Yama, the
>   Mahabharata includes: Rāma the son
>  of
>   Dasharatha, Lakshmana and Pratardana.
>   By so counting Rama along with all
>   other entities, it can be concluded
>   that Rama is a jiva who has attained
>  a
>   loka that is subject to and
>  attainable
>   by karma.
>
>   Read the full post in the URL
>  provided
>   above.
>
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-- 
Sriram Sankaranarayanan
PhD Candidate,
Center for Systems Science and Engineering|Latrobe 302
Johns Hopkins University.
Ph: +1 (443) 713 6818
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