[Advaita-l] Time not Death

[Sujal Upadhyay]

Nope, no doubt.
Thank you.
​

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:24 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Pranams.
>
> Definitely. Mind too is a vyAvahArika satya. Why the doubt?
>
>
> Regards
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Pranams,
>> What about mind. Is mind too a vyavahArika satya?
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, H S Chandramouli <
>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pranams.
>>>
>>> Yes.  That is my understanding.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pranams,
>>>>
>>>> I agree :) positively. So instead of 'concept' it is better to use
>>>> 'vyavahArika satya' to describe time and mAyA.
>>>>
>>>> Hari OM
>>>> Sujal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM, H S Chandramouli <
>>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pranams.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Reg  << Am I getting it wrong? >>,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you are asking, I am answering. I think so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When you ask  << Can it be considered as real or truth?>>,  the
>>>>> answer is Time is vyAvahArika satya. It is anirvachaniya, just as
>>>>> mAya is. I hope I have stated my understanding clearly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> prANAms,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no one 'else' to experience it separately. If you say, there
>>>>>> is absolutely no one who can experience, then we are negating Brahman. Is
>>>>>> it not SunyavAda? If we do not agree that such a state exists, which is
>>>>>> beyond mAyA, then is this the final position of advaita?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If one has to explain this non-dual state, how can one explain this
>>>>>> inexplainable state?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Secondly, 'concept' means 'it is construct of mind' because in
>>>>>> nirvikalpa samAdhi and in deep sleep, one is beyond time. 'Change' is the
>>>>>> nature of time' Anything that changes is not constant. Can it be considered
>>>>>> as real or truth? Am I getting it wrong? Does the state of nirvikalpa
>>>>>> samAdhi accept time as eternal truth? Does advaita accept time as eternal
>>>>>> and hence truth? Please clarify.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sujal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, H S Chandramouli <
>>>>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reg  << when mind is extremely purified, we will have to rise above
>>>>>>> mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time is a concept of mind as when one
>>>>>>> is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does not experience any time i.e. one is
>>>>>>> not aware of how much time one has spent in deep sleep (suShupti) or how
>>>>>>> much time one was in nirvikalpa samAdhi.>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When one has transcended mAya, or in Sushpti or samAdhi, one does
>>>>>>> not experience Time. So how can it be a “concept”. He just does not
>>>>>>> experience it at all. Period.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> praNAms,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Without Space and time i.e. deSa and kAla, there can be no activity
>>>>>>>> and hence no creation, preservation and destruction. Hence when talking
>>>>>>>> about any activity, these two have to be taken into account, but from
>>>>>>>> pArmArthika satya, one is only aware of Self- Atman or Brahman and nothing
>>>>>>>> else. Brahman devoid of space and time is nirvikalpa, achala, etc It cannot
>>>>>>>> do any activity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In order to understand creation and for sake of explanation for
>>>>>>>> various doubts, mAyA and so space and time has to be taken into account.
>>>>>>>> But if one wishes to move ahead i.e. go further deep to finally cross the
>>>>>>>> border of mAyA, then mAyA, space, time and any such phenomenon has to be
>>>>>>>> downgraded i.e. it's importance has to be decreased, so that mind will stop
>>>>>>>> getting attached to them or getting attracted or immersed into them and
>>>>>>>> finally rise above them to enter into nirvikalpa samAdhi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From collective view point, we cannot ignore mAyA, space and time,
>>>>>>>> but from individual standpoint, one day, when mind is extremely purified,
>>>>>>>> we will have to rise above mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time is a
>>>>>>>> concept of mind as when one is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does not
>>>>>>>> experience any time i.e. one is not aware of how much time one has spent in
>>>>>>>> deep sleep (suShupti) or how much time one was in nirvikalpa samAdhi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When there is no time, there cannot be any space or any distance
>>>>>>>> that can be traveled. If there is no distance or space between observer and
>>>>>>>> object (of / under observation), then there cannot be any object. Only pure
>>>>>>>> consciousness remains. There is in-explainable (deep) peace. eko Brahman -
>>>>>>>> SAntam Sivam advaitam.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, we will have to take both statements (and both arguments) in
>>>>>>>> right context.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When bhagavAn says, he is both time and *beyond time*, what I
>>>>>>>> understand is, bhagavAn or KRShNa is both sAkAra and nirAkAra or saguNa and
>>>>>>>> nirguNa.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sujal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:18 AM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>>>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maya is anirvachaniya. It is not correct to state that it does not
>>>>>>>>> exist
>>>>>>>>> nor is it correct to say that it is only a concept. It is
>>>>>>>>> vyAvahArika
>>>>>>>>> satya. Same applies to kAla or Time. Upanishads clearly mention
>>>>>>>>> "creation"
>>>>>>>>> of Time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Vēdānta Study Group via Advaita-l
>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > hariH Om.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > */// Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
>>>>>>>>> called Maya
>>>>>>>>> > ///*
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Is there any pramana to suggest the above? As far as I know,
>>>>>>>>> shankarAchArya
>>>>>>>>> > mentions avidyA (for the sake of our discussion let us akin it
>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>> > samaSTi mAyA) as having bhAva. It is a vastu enjoying existence,
>>>>>>>>> albeit a
>>>>>>>>> > dependent one. Therefore I am not too sure how we're saying
>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>> > nothing called mAyA. As far as 'time' being just a concept, even
>>>>>>>>> this I
>>>>>>>>> > would approach with some skepticism. Space is just as real (or
>>>>>>>>> unreal) as
>>>>>>>>> > time is, in that they're both mithyA, but have a dependent
>>>>>>>>> vyAvahAra
>>>>>>>>> > reality.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > If time were just a concept, it would not be influenced by
>>>>>>>>> anything, which
>>>>>>>>> > we know to be untrue. But that aside, I'm we have shAstra to
>>>>>>>>> indicate that
>>>>>>>>> > mAyA is an existing principle, as are dEsha-kAlA
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Namaste,
>>>>>>>>> > Prashant
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > On 19 June 2017 at 02:20, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
>>>>>>>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2017, R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > > Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
>>>>>>>>> called Maya. We
>>>>>>>>> > >> give the name Maya to things which we are not able to fully
>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>> > or
>>>>>>>>> > >> is beyond our logic. Time also does not exist. It is the name
>>>>>>>>> given to
>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>> > >> duration that elapses between any two events which is
>>>>>>>>> measurable and
>>>>>>>>> > fully
>>>>>>>>> > >> recognisable. In the the Lord says I am Time to indicate He
>>>>>>>>> is eternal
>>>>>>>>> > >> that
>>>>>>>>> > >> is the duration of His presence is lmmeasurable. And All
>>>>>>>>> beings or non
>>>>>>>>> > >> beings
>>>>>>>>> > >> have limited duration between their birth to their death or
>>>>>>>>> end.
>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > > This is true.  But it isn't it strange that people are afraid
>>>>>>>>> of death
>>>>>>>>> > but
>>>>>>>>> > > not afraid of time?  Shankaracharya brings this out in the
>>>>>>>>> mohamudgara
>>>>>>>>> > > stotra in which he admonishes an old man who is studying to
>>>>>>>>> vyakarana to
>>>>>>>>> > > "bhaje govindam".
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > > This is another example of bad interpretations and
>>>>>>>>> translations.  Some
>>>>>>>>> > > make it out to be some sort of tirade against grammar which is
>>>>>>>>> ridiculous
>>>>>>>>> > > to anyone who knows the position vyakarana plays in Sanskrit
>>>>>>>>> scholarship.
>>>>>>>>> > > (In fact according to thinkers like Bhartrahari, it is itself
>>>>>>>>> a form of
>>>>>>>>> > > Vedantic sadhana.)  No; what the acharya is saying is that why
>>>>>>>>> would you
>>>>>>>>> > > wait until your time has almost run out to begin sadhana?  The
>>>>>>>>> right time
>>>>>>>>> > > is now.
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > > --
>>>>>>>>> > > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>>>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>>>>>>>> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>>>>>>>> > >
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>>>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>