[Advaita-l] Supremacy of Shiva over Vishnu

[Venkatraghavan S]

Yes, but I said then that one cannot make a rule of it. If they are
mumukshus with respect for and views in line with sampradAya then I see no
reason why they should automatically be considered wrong.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan

On 3 Sep 2016 5:37 p.m., "Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l" <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste
>
> Last month I was also arguing with you Western scholars cannot be
> correct because -
>
> On Tuesday 2 August 2016, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, vedic karma requires adhikaritvam, but please do not assume >
> adhikaritvam with superiority, and do not extend that superiority as >
> conferring "true" knowledge as opposed to "bookish" knowledge. >
> Your advice should be to Western scholars also. They should not assume
> superiority just because they are from rich countries and fair complexion.
>
> Westerner Roth has said Sayana was ritualistic and he could not give proper
> meaning for Vedic mantras. How can Roth with no Upanayana Samskara know
> more about Vedas than Sayana? Is it possible in this Mleccha Janma for Roth
> to know more than Brahmin Sayana about Vedas? Never.
>
> Same Logic will apply here. How can the Mleccha Paul Hacker without
> Upanayana Samskara have any authority to study and understand Adi
> Sankara's Bhashya and comment he was Vaishnava. This Mleccha Paul
> hacker can never understand Adi Sankara Bhashyas because he has not
> studied it under a Guru in the Sampradaya.
>
> He can publish papers and get appreciation in Western circles but in
> Sringeri circles he will get a big Zero.
>
> They say Half Knowledge is dangerous. These Western scholars have only
> Half knowledge because they study in very unorthodox manner. Who knows
> how they study? They give conclusions with this Half knowledge and
> confuse everybody.
>
> On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > Well put. The motive of academic research and vedic teaching is
> completely
> > different. The latter is primarily geared towards imparting jnAna so that
> > students can realise moksha. Therefore it is vital that the core
> knowledge
> > that leads to moksha is preserved in an undisturbed fashion. Sure, there
> > will be innovation in teaching methodologies, models, examples etc., to
> > cater to different student types and changing times but the core message
> -
> > You are that Brahman - will be fundamentally retained.
> >
> > The incentive of academic research on Vedanta is completely different.
> The
> > writer is oriented towards demonstrating his individual contribution to
> the
> > body of knowledge. The greater the innovation he demonstrates, as long as
> > there is a credible justification, the greater is the reward - academic
> > papers, professorial positions etc. No academic is working with the
> belief
> > or intention that his research effort is going to give himself moksha,
> let
> > alone others. Therefore there is no need to be in line with sampradAya
> for
> > him.
> >
> > Using that work as moksha shAstra, at best is a complete waste of time.
> > Worse, it may lead one to lose shraddha in shAstra and the guru, which
> is a
> > major obstacle on the path to moksha.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> > On 3 Sep 2016 4:40 p.m., "Sanju Nath" <sanjivendra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The analogy of computers, etc also relies on standing on the shoulders
> of
> >> previous scientists.  There is a parampara of first learning physics,
> >> engineering, software, etc from teachers for many years before one is
> >> competent enough to further inventions.
> >>
> >> Same or more important is the case of understand Vedic literature.  This
> >> sampradya starts in Bharat for many milleniums.  The issue with western
> >> thinkers is that they trace or attribute very rarely (other than a
> >> perfunctory list of attributions whose value is secondary to their
> >> "original" thinking).  Who is the guru, etc of Paul Hacker, other
> Western
> >> thinkers doesn't matter whereas Indian tradition dismisses those who
> learn
> >> the Vedas outside the guru parampara.
> >>
> >> Strange how topsy-turvy the learning is in the West:  science requires a
> >> parampara, but Vedas - all free to study and attack.  Science has
> succeeded
> >> in the west because of the parampara of knowledge being learned and
> handed
> >> down by successive scientists, and not everyone doing their own thing,
> as
> >> attempted by them regarding Vedas , puranas, itihaas, smritis, sutras.
> >>
> >> Sanju
> >>
> >> > On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:09 AM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Correcting the typo in the sentence below: One is worldly knowledge,
> >> aparA
> >> > vidyA, whose knowledge is derived from pratyaksha pramANa and the
> other
> >> is
> >> > spiritual knowledge, *parA* vidyA, which depends on shruti pramANa.
> >> >
> >> >> On 3 Sep 2016 7:55 a.m., "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Please don't paint this as prejudice of western views.
> >> >>
> >> >> The analogy of acceptance of western views and inventions such as
> >> > computers etc but non acceptance of western views in matters of
> Vedanta
> >> is
> >> > not appropriate here as we are talking of two different spheres of
> >> > knowledge. One is worldly knowledge, aparA vidyA, whose knowledge is
> >> > derived from pratyaksha pramANa and the other is spiritual knowledge,
> >> aparA
> >> > vidyA, which depends on shruti pramANa. To understand what shruti
> pramANa
> >> > has to say, one needs to be able to interpret it correctly and for
> this
> >> one
> >> > needs a sampradAya guru.
> >> >>
> >> >> Even in parA vidyA, no one is dismissing *all* the views of *all*
> >> > scholars, be they western or otherwise, as foolish. Only those that
> >> choose
> >> > to opine on matters of para vidyA by ignoring tradition are called
> thus -
> >> > by Shankaracharya.
> >> >>
> >> >> On the other side of the equation, coming to aparA vidyA, to dismiss
> all
> >> > traditional accounts as hagiographies devoid of historical merit is
> >> > throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Venkatraghavan
> >> >>
> >> >> On 3 Sep 2016 5:30 a.m., "D Gayatri via Advaita-l" <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I find it intriguing that people have no problems using western
> >> > technology
> >> >>> and inventions like computers, internet etc. and at the same time
> the
> >> > very
> >> >>> same people dismiss all western scholars as fools! Just as any other
> >> >>> scholars, the arguments of western scholars have their own merits
> and
> >> >>> demerits, but IMHO, to dismiss the entire class of western scholars
> as
> >> >>> fools, smacks of intellectual arrogance.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Friday, 2 September 2016, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> >> >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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