[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[Aurobind Padiyath]

Bhaskarji,
Your points are well placed and is exactly what I too have understood from
Bhashya and other Vyakhas.
Hari Om!
Aurobind

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:44 Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
>
> Hare Krishna
>
> 1)      shAstram tu antyam pramANam says AchArya. He says that no pramANa,
> pramEya, pramAtr bhedA is possible in Brahman.
>
> Ø   Yes, prabhuji I agree, neha nAnAsti kiMchana declares shruti.
>
> 2)       jnAni loses his pramANA status, perception loses its pramANA
> status and jagat loses its pramEya status after the onset of jnAna. That is
> how brahmaivedam amrutam purastAt, should be understood.
>
> >  Yes, jnAni loses his pramAtru status so the corresponding pramANa,
> prameya, prama etc.  But this does not mean jnAni’s body itself would
> vanish in thin air alongwith jagat since his shareerAdhi upAdhi-s are
> mithyA.  What is mithyA or avidyA kalpita here is pramAtrutva, bhOktrutva,
> katrutva of jnAni not jnAni himself.  If the jnAni himself is avidyA
> kalpita, if the jagat what he see itself is avidyAkalpita, after the dawn
> of jnana in one jnAni this world would have not been available for us
> alongwith him.  That is not the case here, despite passing away of jnAni-s
> over the centuries we are still perceiving this jagat !!  So, what does
> this mean?? Jagat itself is not mithyA, perception that one has on jagat is
> mithyA due to avidyA since excluding himself thinking that he is pramAtru,
> bhOktru, jnAtru, kartru etc. ajnAni gives an independent existence to jagat
> and for him jagat is asarvaM, abrahmam etc. But for the jnAni jagat is in
> its kAryAkArarUpa brahman only because he knows the shruti siddhAnta that
> brahman is the ONLY abhinna nimittOpadAna kAraNa for this kAryAkAra jagat.
>
> 2) Even in vyavahAra, the adhishThAna of nAma rUpa can never be available
> for perception, by your own logic.
>
> >  It is not my logic, it is in everyone’s anubhava ☺ nAma rUpAtmaka
> vikAra jagat is pratyaksha pramANa gOchara whereas adhishtAnaM of  this
> jagat, i.e. brahman is apratyaksha.
>
> How is the anadhigatatvam of shruti preserved if perception reveals
> Brahman as adhishThAnam?
>
> Ø   By realizing the kAraNa svarUpa in seen nAma, rUpa kAryAkAra and
> realizing the shruti pratipAdita siddhAnta that brahman is the upAdAna
> kAraNa for this perceived jagat.  In pratyaksha you would still see the pot
> (vikAra) but your drushti would always be on the ‘clay’ not on the vikAra
> of clay.  And this is what shankara clarifies in sUtra bhAshya, (quoted
> earlier ) : kAryAkArOpi kAraNasya Atma bhUta eva and there exists nothing
> that can be labelled as ‘mithyA’ / asatyA : sata eva dvaitabhedena
> anyathAgruhyamANatvAnnAsatvaM kasyachit kvachit.
>
>
>
> If it did, one doesn't need shruti at all.
>
> Ø  The pramANa of shruti required to get the pramANAntara jnana of
> pratyaksha pramANa i.e. adhishtAna vastu of pratyaksha gOchara nAma rUpa
> vyAkruta jagat.  Shruti promptly pointing its finger towards this jagat and
> clarifying for this jagat only brahman is the antaryAmi as well as upAdAna.
>
>
>
> So one has to conclude that what is available for perception is only the
> mithyA component of jagat, never it's adhishThAna.
>
> Ø   I don’t know how you have come to this conclusion from your
> observation!!  OTOH bhAshyakAra clarifies : na tu paramArthataH
> AtmavyatirekeNa asti kiMchit and shruti declares sarvaM khalvidaM brahma,
> tajjalaM iti shAnta upAseeta, idaM sarvaM yadayamAtma etc.
>
> 3)      Which brings me to the 3rd point. Considering  perception of nAma
> rUpa as *perception* is valid only in vyavahAra - ie so long as they are
> not understood as mithyA.
>
> Ø   Do you mean to say jnAni who has realized his svarUpa would not
> perceive the jagat at all!!??  Or his perception of jagat is mithyA??
> Again what would be the perception of jnAni after realizing the svarUpa??
> In bhAshyakAra’s own words : pUrvaM avidyayA asarva Aseet punaH vidyayA
> avidyApanaye sarvO bhavati.  And further bhAshyakAra clarifies, yattu
> sarvAtmabhAvAt arvAk vAlAgramAtramapi anyatvena drushyate nAhamasmeeti
> tadavasthA avidyA.  Is it clear prabhuji, jnAni’s realization is not that I
> am brahma and this jagat is mithyA and I would continue to see the ‘mithyA’
> jagat, for him this jagat in its sadrUpa satyameva na anrutaM.  That which
> was asarvaM for him prior to jnana would become ‘sarvaM’ and that ‘sarvaM’
> is brahmamayaM only not mithyA.  And this is called jnAni’s bhUma drushti,
> samyak drushti, sarvAtmabhAva.
>
> 4)      Once nAma rUpa is understood as mithyA, no pramA can be generated
> for a mithyA vastu. The very definition of pramA is abAdhitArtha vastu
> vishayaka jnAnam pramA. So if nAma rUpa is sublated, you cannot call it's
> jnAnam pramA, and you cannot call the means of generating that jnAnam
> pramANA.
>
> Ø   Pls. see above, no place for mithyA in paramArtha sarvAtmabhAva.
>
> So by 2 (anadhigatatvam), adhishThAna cannot be perceived, and by 3, nAma
> rUpa perception is not perception at all.
>
> By 1, AchArya himself relegates all pramANA prameya pramAtr vyavahAra only
> until the generation of brahma jnAnam.
>
> Ø   To the best of my ability I have shared my understanding on these
> points prabhuji.  You are welcome to disagree with it.
>
> With this I am going to stop and let you consider whatever you have read -
> over 100 emails have been exchanged on the subject. If after reading all of
> them you still feel your position is justified, I'm not sure there is much
> further to say. All the best.
>
> Ø   Thanks for your participation & spending your time in this discussion
> prabhuji.
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
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-- 

Aurobind Padiyath
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