[Advaita-l] Fwd: Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste all,

I am responding to the substantive portion of Sri Shiv Dinkar's argument.
Let us leave the other emotive points about Advaita and advaitins aside, as
they doesn't merit a response.

Essentially his argument is for any adhyAsa of jagat to happen on the
adhishThAna Brahman, two things are necessary as a rule - sine qua non, in
his words.

1) there must be a previous knowledge of the adyastha vastu and adhishThAna
vastu.
2) there must be similarity between adhyastha vastu and adhishThAna.

Re rule 1, we agree. However that doesn't mean that the knowledge of the
previous adhyastha vastu is of a *satya* vastu. If I see a ghost in a
horror movie and when walking back from the cinema theater I see a shadow
and think it is the ghost I saw, that is an adhyAsa of a ghost in the
adhishThAna shadow. However, the basis for the previous ghost knowledge
that enabled me to superimpose a ghost on the shadow now is not a  ghost
that has paramArtha satyam. It is a mithyA ghost seen in a film.

So while the requirement of prior knowledge of adhyastha vastu is fine, it
is not necessary that the knowledge is generated by a real vastu "sine qua
non". Even a mithyA vastu can generate the sanskAra for future adhyAsa.

2) Secondly, there is no absolute rule that similarity between adhyastha
vastu and adhishThAna vastu be there for all adhyAsa to happen. Children
and ignorant people look at the sky and say the sky is blue. Blueness is
not an attribute of the sky, nor is there any similarity between blueness
and sky. What is the similarity between mirage water and sand?
This rule for similarity is just arbitrary and not "sine qua non".

Anyway, Shivji, the reason I chose to respond to the two points was not
because I thought logic could convince you - you have already dismissed my
logical abilities :) - but in case other people have similar doubts about
the requirements for adhyAsa.

I also have no problem with your emotional outburst and wish you well in
your understanding of dvaita.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan


On 25 Mar 2016 6:08 a.m., "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I believe this message was not sent to the list, forwarding for the sake
of completion.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "SHIVPRASAD DINKAR" <harivayus at bellsouth.net>
> Date: 24 Mar 2016 10:22 p.m.
> Subject: Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??
> To: "Srinath Vedagarbha" <svedagarbha at gmail.com>
> Cc: "agnimile at gmail.com" <agnimile at gmail.com>
>
> Unless there is Sukthi before, and Rajatha has been known earlier, no
projection of Rajatha on Sukthi is possible.  This Sukthi is Adhishtana
while the Rajatha seen earlier is Pradhana.  Both these are similar to each
other.  These two are essential and sine qua non to have the illusory
projection of Rajatha over Sukthi.  Similarly, to have illusory projection
of Jagat, two more Jagats are necessary.  One to serve as Adhishtana and
the other to serve as Pradhana, that are Real.  If so, then the very
purpose of envisaging the illusory projection of the world is defeated.
This results in a situation whereby Adwaitins would be accepting TWO REAL
WORLDs in their illogical anxiety to deny one real world.
>
> Sriman Jaya Tirtha makes fun of the illogic of Adwaithis as follows in
his Teeka for Srimad Acharya's Vishnutatwa Vinirnaya - Pinyakayachanartham
Gathasya Pishachasya Swarithailadhana Prathigyavath Adhikaha - Aapatath.
>
> Regards
> Shiv
>
> PS:  No point in debating the logically challenged.  Most of them do not
have the logical ability beyond than that of a 7th or 8th grader middle
school kids.  They Will resort to circular logic, time and time again.