[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः
सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste
>
> There is Adhikari Bheda here also. For Ajnani the world is not Mithya.
> It is Satya only. He must say Jagat Satyam only not otherwise. For a
> seeker world is Mithya. It is not Sat, not Asat, not both Sat and
> Asat. For a Jnani the world is not there at all. It is Asat like a
> Man's horns.
>

Panchadashi (6.130) says as follows:

तुच्छानिर्वचनीया च वास्तवी चेत्यसौ त्रिधा
ज्ञेया माया त्रिभिर्बोधैः श्रौतयौक्तिकलौकिकौः

tuchChAnirvachanIyA cha vAstavI chetyasau tridhA .

jneyA mAyA tribhirbodhaiH shrauta-yauktika-laukikaiH .. 130..



From the point of Shruti it (māyā) is tucchā (low or
insignificant/non-existent), from the logical

view it is anirvachanIyA (indefinable) and for the ordinary people it
is vAstavI (real).

Thus, as per the above verse, which Sri Vidyaranya is only quoting, I
suppose, those who hold

māyā (the world, that is its effect) to be real are 'laukika-s'.

Regards,

vs


Therefore when someone is asking 'how can you say World is Mithya?' we

have to ask 'Who are you?' Are you Ajnani, Seeker or Jnani. The answer
> will be depending on who is asking. If Ajnani is asking we have to
> agree and say 'No no, world is not Mithya but Satya only. Be happy'.
> If Seeker is asking we can show him how world is Mithya. If Jnani is
> asking... he will never ask at all. He knows the answer.
>
> Otherwise there will be endless unnecessary debate for many many
> centuries like with the Dvaitis.
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > Namaste Subbuji, Srinath ji,
> >
> > First of all, many thanks Subbuji for sharing the bhAshya vAkyas in this
> > discussion. The mandUkya kArika and bhAshya are very relevant to this
> > discussion.
> >
> > Coming to your question Srinath-ji:
> >
> > <<Isn't the second definition of mithyA contradicts above position?>>
> >
> > Just wanted to confirm, by 'the above position' do you mean this sentence
> > in Subbuji's email: 'The world does not exist at all in the first place
> for
> > it to be negated.'?
> >
> > That is, is your question that as the world need not be negated, it is
> not
> > traikAlika nishedha pratiyogi and hence not mithyA as per the below
> > definition?
> >
> > <<Mithya is defined as
> > pratipanna-upAdhau-traikAlika-niShedha-pratiyogitvaM>>
> >
> > If that is the question, the answer is that GaudapAdAchArya and
> > ShankarAchArya are speaking from a paramArtha standpoint. Negation of the
> > world has already happened, with the realisation that there never was a
> > world in all three periods of time, and consequently *no negation was
> > needed*. Once a mithyA vastu has been negated, it ceases to exist in all
> > three periods of time, ruling out the need to negate it - but that
> doesn't
> > make the vastu fall outside the scope of the definition.
> >
> > For example, once the rope snake has been negated, we understand that
> there
> > never was a rope snake in any period of time, and therefore there was *no
> > need for negation in the first place*.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> > On 22 Mar 2016 9:05 p.m., "Srinath Vedagarbha via Advaita-l" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> 2016-03-22 13:42 GMT-04:00 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
> >>
> >> > In all our discussions on whether or not the world is ultimately
> Brahman,
> >> > we should not forget this declaration of Sri Gaudapadacharya:
> >> >
> >> > प्रपञ्चो यदि विद्येत निवर्तेत न संशयः ।
> >> > मायामात्रमिदं द्वैतमद्वैतं परमार्थतः ॥ १७ ॥ 1.17
> >> > 17 If the phenomenal universe were real, then certainly it would
> >> disappear.
> >> > The universe of duality which is cognized is mere illusion (maya);
> >> > Non—duality alone is the Supreme Reality.
> >> >
> >> > Bhashya:
> >> >
> >> > प्रपञ्चनिवृत्त्या चेत्प्रतिबुध्यते, अनिवृत्ते प्रपञ्चे कथमद्वैतमिति,
> >> उच्यते
> >> > । सत्यमेवं स्यात्प्रपञ्चो यदि विद्येत ; रज्ज्वां सर्प इव कल्पितत्वान्न
> >> तु स
> >> > विद्यते । विद्यमानश्चेत् निवर्तेत, न संशयः । न हि रज्ज्वां
> >> भ्रान्तिबुद्ध्या
> >> > कल्पितः सर्पो विद्यमानः सन्विवेकतो निवृत्तः ; न च माया मायाविना
> प्रयुक्ता
> >> > तद्दर्शिनां चक्षुर्बन्धापगमे विद्यमाना सती निवृत्ता ; तथेदं
> प्रपञ्चाख्यं
> >> > मायामात्रं द्वैतम् ; रज्जुवन्मायाविवच्च अद्वैतं परमार्थतः ; तस्मान्न
> >> > कश्चित्प्रपञ्चः प्रवृत्तो निवृत्तो वास्तीत्यभिप्रायः ॥
> >> > The gist is: To say that 'by negating the world, the Advaitic Brahman
> is
> >> > known' is also a teaching aid; really speaking there is no world at
> all
> >> to
> >> > be negated. It is not that the world exists, which is negated. The
> world
> >> > does not exist at all in the first place for it to be negated.
> >> > This is what is stated as:
> >> > न निरोधो न चोत्पत्तिर्न बद्धो न च साधकः ।
> >> > न मुमुक्षुर्न वै मुक्त इत्येषा परमार्थता ॥ ३२ ॥ 2.32
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> Isn't the second definition of mithyA contradicts above position?
> >>
> >> Mithya is defined as
> pratipanna-upAdhau-traikAlika-niShedha-pratiyogitvaM
> >>
> >> (Mithya is that which never existed in the locus it is perceived)
> >>
> >> So, what is being negated is existence world at the locus where it
> appears,
> >> i.e Brahman as adhisTAna.
> >>
> >> /sv
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>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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