[Advaita-l] About Patanjali and Panini

[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Shashwata Shastri <
shashwata.unimas at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> *Purva mimamsa is not holding the upanishad portions as paurusheya.  They
> hold those portions also as veda alone.  Their view is that this portion
> that does not talk of any action, is to be deemed arthavāda, a praise of
> the doer or devatā to which actions are addressed. Shankara only showed
> that both the action part and the knowledge part of the veda are not
> contradicting each other and that each had its own area of application.  *
> Any quote or reference supporting this? I mean directly from the
> commentators?
>

This is the prelude to the fourth sutra: tattu samanvayāt.  Shankara says:

कथं पुनर्ब्रह्मणः शास्त्रप्रमाणकत्वमुच्यते यावता आम्नायस्य
क्रियार्थत्वादानर्थक्यमतदर्थानाम् इति क्रियापरत्वं शास्त्रस्य प्रदर्शितम्।
अतो वेदान्तानामानर्थक्यम् अक्रियार्थत्वात् कर्तृदेवतादिप्रकाशनार्थत्वेन वा
क्रियाविधिशेषत्वम् उपासनादिक्रियान्तरविधानार्थत्वं वा। न हि
परिनिष्ठितवस्तुस्वरूपप्रतिपादनं संभवति
प्रत्यक्षादिविषयत्वात्परिनिष्ठितवस्तुनः तत्प्रतिपादने च हेयोपादेयरहिते
पुरुषार्थाभावात्। अत एव सोऽरोदीत् इत्येवमादीनामानर्थक्यं मा भूदिति विधिना
त्वेकवाक्यत्वात्स्तुत्यर्थेन विधीनां स्युः इति
स्तावकत्वेनार्थवत्त्वमुक्तम्। मन्त्राणां च इषे त्वा इत्यादीनां
क्रियातत्साधनाभिधायकत्वेन कर्मसमवायित्वमुक्तम्। अतो न क्वचिदपि वेदवाक्यानां
विधिसंस्पर्शमन्तरेणार्थवत्ता दृष्टा उपपन्ना वा। न च परिनिष्ठिते
वस्तुस्वरूपे विधिः संभवति क्रियाविषयत्वाद्विधेः
तस्मात्कर्मापेक्षितकर्तृदेवतादिस्वरूपप्रकाशनेन
क्रियाविधिशेषत्वं वेदान्तानाम्। अथ प्रकरणान्तरभयान्नैतदभ्युपगम्यते तथापि
स्ववाक्यगतोपासनादिकर्मपरत्वम्। तस्मान्न ब्रह्मणः शास्त्रयोनित्वमिति
प्राप्ते उच्यते  ...

The highlighted part says that the view of the mimamsaka is that the
vedanta part (upanishads) of the veda is still subsidiary to action by
revealing the nature of the kartā devatā etc.  This is how Shankara
presents the jaimini sutra and the view of the mimamsaka on that sutra.


https://rajyogi255.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/%E0%A4%86%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF-%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80-%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0-%E0%A4%94%E0%A4%B0-%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A3%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A1-3/

” आम्नायस्य क्रियार्थत्वादानर्थक्यमतदर्थानाम् ” { जैमिनि सूत्र 1 / 2 / 1 }
यह मीमांसा का मुख्य सिद्धान्त है कि वेद याग आदि क्रिया परक है , जो वेद भाग
याग आदि क्रियाओं को नहीं करता वह निष्फल है । ” स्वर्गकामो यजेत् ” स्वर्गकाम
पुरुष याग करे यह विधि है । जो वेद वाक्य कर्म का प्रतिपादन नहीं करते वे भी
अर्थवाद रूप से साक्षात् वा परम्परया विधि से ही सम्बन्धित है । ”

>
> Shashwata Chowdhury
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 7:01 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Shashwata Shastri via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Sir,
>>> Chandasam Drishta Brahmanah Proktah. -- regarding this statement of
>>> Panini,
>>> Patanjala has done his own commentary supporting Panini. Well I was
>>> having
>>> a discussion about uttara mimamsa. A particular guy told me that only the
>>> Mantra part can be considered as Auparusheya but the others parts are
>>> paurusheya since they are not aloukik but rather loukik. I disagreed on
>>> this statement strongly since I know that Lord Shankara accepted the
>>> upanishadas as shruti. Without vedanta veda is not complete per my view.
>>> As
>>> we know he refuted the commentary of Purva Mimamsa Commentators point
>>> blank
>>> regarding the exact same matter.
>>
>>
>> Namaste
>>
>> Purva mimamsa is not holding the upanishad portions as paurusheya.  They
>> hold those portions also as veda alone.  Their view is that this portion
>> that does not talk of any action, is to be deemed arthavāda, a praise of
>> the doer or devatā to which actions are addressed. Shankara only showed
>> that both the action part and the knowledge part of the veda are not
>> contradicting each other and that each had its own area of application.
>>
>> regards
>> subrahmanian.v
>>
>>
>>
>>> But I got a bit puzzled after seeing this
>>> statement.As It was derived from Panini. That is why I have inquired
>>> here,
>>> since I do not have that much knowledge about the works of the ancient
>>> grammarians. Though I wanted to read the vartika of Katayana where he
>>> criticized Panini. If anything was mentioned there regarding that
>>> statement
>>> of Panini it would be helpful also.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Shashwata Chowdhury
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Siva Senani Nori <sivasenani at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Sir
>>> >
>>> > I don't know why you say that Patanjali "stated that only veda's mantra
>>> > part is Vaidiki but the rest is loukik?" Which particular statement in
>>> > Mahabhashya do you have in mind?
>>> >
>>> > I am guessing here that you refer to the text quoted below. In the
>>> first
>>> > Ahnika (day-lesson) popularly known as पस्पशाह्निकम् the opponent
>>> > challenges the stance of Siddhanti शास्त्रेण धर्मनियमः क्रियते by
>>> stating
>>> > that there are certain usages sanctioned by Sastra, but not actually
>>> found:
>>> > अस्त्यप्रयुक्ताः। सन्ति वै शब्दा अप्रयुक्ताः। तद्यथा - ऊष, तेर, चक्र,
>>> पेच -
>>> > इति। After some discussion, Patanjali says that one must simply not
>>> state
>>> > that these Sabdas are not used, but must make an effort to find the
>>> usage:
>>> >
>>> > उपलब्धौ यत्नः क्रियताम्। महान् शब्दस्य प्रयोगविषयः। सप्तद्वीपा वसुमती,
>>> > त्रयो लोकाः, चत्वारो वेदाः साङ्गाः सरहस्या बहुधा भिन्नाः . . .
>>> >
>>> > Translation: Effort ought to be made to find out [the usages]. The
>>> > subject/topic of usage of language is vast. The earth consists of seven
>>> > islands; there are three lokas, and four Vedas along with its
>>> subsidiary
>>> > elements (Vedangas) and with Rahasyas (Upanishads).
>>> >
>>> > Now, some people may say that just like Angas, a clearly external part
>>> as
>>> > far as Vedas are concerned are mentioned, the external part of
>>> Upanishads
>>> > are also similarly mentioned - साङ्गाः सरहस्याः। Given below are the
>>> > reasons why Upanishads are not external to the Vedas.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I. bhedavivakshA vs. abhedavivakshA
>>> >
>>> > Within Mahabhashya, Patanjali shows that whether we refer to an avayava
>>> > separately or not is the wish of the speaker (vivakshA). As such no
>>> > inference can be drawn from such usages. For instance if I hurt my
>>> right
>>> > hand's index finger, I can choose to use any of the following
>>> sentences:
>>> >
>>> > 1. I hurt myself, 2. I hurt my right hand, 3. I hurt a finger on my
>>> right
>>> > hand, 4. I hurt the index finger on my right hand, 5. I sustained a
>>> deep
>>> > cut on the distal phalanx of my right index finger.
>>> >
>>> > So it does not necessarily mean that Rahasya is not Veda, just like
>>> usages
>>> > 2 to 5 above do not mean that the distal phalanx of my right index
>>> finger
>>> > is not included in the word "I"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > II. Different interpretation
>>> >
>>> > He is clearly stating that Upanishads are a part of Veda. Why didn't he
>>> > say सब्राह्मणाः and सारण्यकाः? Because, Upanishads are the last part.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > III. Rahasya need not mean Upanishad only
>>> >
>>> > Further, Nagesabhatta in his commentary offers a resolution: रहस्यम् -
>>> > उपनिषत्। म्वादिस्मृतयो वा, वेदनिगूढार्थप्रकाशत्वात्। In Purvamimamsa,
>>> it
>>> > has been shown that Smritis throw light on parts of Veda which are
>>> > otherwise not accessible.
>>> >
>>> > If we look at literature of that time, we see that other Sastras -
>>> > Mimamsa, Apastambasutra, Manusmriti etc. agree that Veda means Mantra
>>> bhaga
>>> > and brAhmaNabhAga (here brAhmaNa means brAhmaNa, AraNyaka and
>>> upanishat).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > IV. General vs. Particular
>>> >
>>> > Also, within Mahabhashya there are sentences like
>>> नामाख्यातोपसर्गनिपाताश्च
>>> > proposing a four-fold division of words. Now, it is well known that
>>> > according to Panini, words are of two types - सुबन्तम्, तिङन्तम्
>>> > (substantive and verb). Therefore in the four-fold division mentioned,
>>> i.e.
>>> > नामाख्यातोपसर्गनिपाताश्च, upasarga and nipAta are necessarily a part of
>>> > nAma.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > V. Sentences quoted in Mahabhashyam
>>> >
>>> > Finally, within Mahabhashya, many Vedic sentences occur such as (all
>>> these
>>> > occur in PaspaSa only in the context of discussion about dharmaniyama)
>>> > a) पयोव्रतो ब्राह्मणः यवागूव्रतो राजन्यः आमिक्षाव्रतो वैश्यः
>>> > b) बैल्वः खादिरो वा यूपः स्यात्
>>> > c) अग्नौ कपालान्यधिश्रित्याभिमन्त्रयते
>>> >
>>> > All these sound like extracts from Brahmana-bhAga (unless they are from
>>> > Krishnayajurveda where the saMhitA portion is mixed with instructions /
>>> > guidelines like these, but then Patanjali belonged to Atharvaveda).
>>> > Admittedly, one has to trace these quotations before concluding this
>>> line
>>> > of argument.
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> > N Siva Senani
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> > *From:* Shashwata Shastri via Advaita-l <
>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>>> > *To:* advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>>> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 March 2016 11:57 AM
>>> > *Subject:* [Advaita-l] About Patanjali and Panini
>>> >
>>> > Lord Shankara has accepted all four parts of the shruti as vedas. But
>>> why
>>> > did patanjali in his mahavashya stated that only veda's mantra part is
>>> > Vaidiki but the rest is loukik?
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> >
>>> >
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>>
>>
>