[Advaita-l] Another's analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was Re: Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana)

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Please look at the relevant Sanskrit verses
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/10/16, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Another's analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was Re: Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana)
 To: "advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 12:56 PM
 
 Note the significant
 difference between the following two comments:
  
   Comment 1: "Killing
 a messenger is not advisable according to socially accepted
 norms."
  
   Comment
 2: "We have not heard of any messenger having been
 killed in the past."
  
 Being well aware of Ravana's past,
 Vibhishana should have chosen the first comment in the case
 of an historical precedence, not the second!
   
 
      
 From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
  To:
 A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>;
 S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com>
 
  Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 12:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Another's
 analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was Re: Ramopakhyana of
 Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana)
    
 Here 
 Vibhishana was talking of the maximum permissible
 punishments to the messenger (depending on how the messenger
 presented the message.  This in spite of  Vibhishana's
 knowledge that  Ravana,out of his anger,  did kill the
 messenger of Kuvera, with his Kharga. .
 
 Regards,
 Sunil Bhattacharjya
 --------------------------------------------
 On Fri, 6/10/16, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l
 <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject:
 [Advaita-l] Another's analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was
 Re: Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of
 Ramayana)
  To: "A discussion group for
 Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
  Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 11:56 AM
  
  Changed the subject
  line. I just performed a Google search, and
 found the
  following website with many
 observations, but one very
  important
 point: http://sriramayanakandukuri.blogspot.com/2015/01/uttara-kanda-prakshipta.html 3)
      While trying to stop Ravana in ordering
 killing of Sri
  Hanuma,  Vibhishana says
 there was no precedence,  of
  killing
 messenger (Sundara Kanda). 
 
 वैरूप्याम्
 
 अन्गेषु कश अभिघातो |
  
 
 मौण्ड्यम्
  तथा
 लक्ष्मण सम्निपातः
  |
  
 
 एतान् हि
  दूते
 प्रवदन्ति
 
 दण्डान् |
  
 
 वधः तु दूतस्य न नः
  श्रुतो अपि ||  
  
  (Sundara Kanda 52 Sarga 15
 Sloka) 
  "Some of the punishments to
 an envoy
  are-deforming the limbs, striking
 with a whip, shaving the
  head and
 impressing marks on the body. Indeed, we have not
  heard at any time of killing a
 messenger."
   
  
 Vibhishana was saying just
  One month before
 Great Battle that took place in Lanka.  He
 
 was saying that till then there was no precedence of
 Killing
  a messenger.
   
   However, it
  was narrated in
 the 13 th Sarga of Uttara Kanda about
 
 killing of the messenger of Kubera by Ravana.   This
  incident stated to had been took place at the
 time of
  Ravana's commencement of wars
 on Devatas, Yakshas,
  Gandharvas, etc, at
 his younger age.
   
   Had
 Ravana really killed a messenger of
  Kubera,
 Vibhishana might not had said that there was no
  precedence of Killing a messenger.
    
   
     
   From: Ryan
  Armstrong <ryanarm at gmail.com>
   To:
  S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com>;
  A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
  
   Sent: Friday, June 10,
 2016 2:33 AM
   Subject: Re: [Advaita-l]
 Ramopakhyana of
  Mahabharata vs. the Uttara
 Kanda of Ramayana
     
 
 Namaste
  
  Sorry to
 "resurrect"
  an old
 discussion...
  Last night, while
  reading Mahabharata, I came across an episode
 in Shanti
  Parva:
  It is in
 section 153 where
  Yudhishthira asks Bhishma
 if he has ever heard of a mortal
  being
 restored to life after having succumbed to death.
  In the Answer, there is a reference to Sri
 Rama
  and the Sudra Samvuka.
  A child had died
  before the
 father, and the father petitioned Sri Rama's
  help since this had not occurred in the
 kingdom during His
  reign.
 
 The reason was that Samvuka was
  engaged in
 ascetic penances and so Sri Rama cut off his head
  and the child was restored to life.
  
  This story is from the
 Uttara Kanda.
  I am not really in a position
 to answer the
  initial question about
 whether it was part of the original
 
 Ramayana of Valmiki.
  Bhishma may have
  received the story from another source.
  The
  point is that at the time
 of the composition of Mahabharata,
  this
 story was known...even though not mentioned in the
  "Ramopakhanya" portion.
  
  Yours in Truth
  Ryan 
  
  On 3
 May 2016 at 02:03, S
  Jayanarayanan via
 Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
  wrote:
  
   It
 has debated
  whether or not the Uttara Kanda
 constitutes a part of the
  original Valmiki
 Ramayana, or is a later addition to the
 
 text.
   
  Here is the
 reason
  why I believe the Uttara Kanda may
 not have been a part of
  the original
 Valmiki Ramayana:
  The
 
 Mahabharata actually contains the "Story of Rama,
 the
  Son of Dasaratha", known as
 "Ramopakhyana".
  After talking
 about Rama and Lakshmana going to the forest,
  Sita's captivity, Hanuman setting fire to
 Lanka, war
  with Kumbhakarna, death of
 Ravana, freeing Sita etc., it
  ends with:
  "And then assisted by the
  celestial Rishi (Vasishtha), Rama performed on
 the banks of
  the Gomati ten horse
 sacrifices without obstruction of any
  kind
 and with treble presents unto Brahmanas."
   
  Surprising that the
  "Ramopakhyana" as narrated in the
 Mahabharata ends
  exactly at the same place
 as the Yuddha Kanda of the Valmiki
  Ramayana
 (i.e. the beginning of Rama Rajyam), with no
  mention of the later events of the Uttara
 Kanda!
   
 
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  -- 
 
 Regards
  
  Ryan Armstrong
  +27 82 852 7787
  ryanarm at gmail.com
  
  
    
 
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