[Advaita-l] avidya is Agantuka

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Shree Venkatrghavan - PraNAms

Just noticed the posts and could not resist adding my 2c.

 In the recent Vicharasagara class, Swami Paramarthanandaji mentioned that the 'pratyaksha' is defined by having jnaana vRitti and vishaya sambandha - Recapitulation the lessons- Pratyaksha occurs 1. by sense perception and 2. by shaabda pratyaksha and 3. Saakshi pratyaksha.  The first one we all know. The second is like dashamaha in the 10th man story,.  or introducing some one as, say, he is president of this organization- Sense perception is only his form but shaabda pratyaka is knowledge that he is the president understood by shabda pramaana. - Saakshi pratyaksha comes by process of elimination - paarisheShanyaaya - that which is immediate but not via indriayas or by shabda - most of the emotions, or internal perceptions  come under this. All perceptions can be considered as anubhava in a sense. 

Brahma vidya comes under Shaabda pratyaksha - via mahaavaakaya vichaara. It is not conventional anubhava that involves tripuTi which therefore involves vritti vyaapti and phala vyaapti, the self-knowledge via mahaavaakya vichaara involves vRitti vyaapti but no phalavyaati - in the sense that object of awareness is self-evident. Hence it is in a way shaabda pratyaksha jnaanam where the knower and known identity is being implied as in dhashamaH. I am the 10th man is immediate experience that does not involve tripuTi but involves immediate and direct knowledge of the missing 10th man. Same way the mahaavaakya vichaara. 

About avidyaa also - it is experienced in the deep-sleep state -and therefore by process of elimination, it is considered as saakshi pratyaksha jnaanam. There is no conventional triputi there yet it is intense experience of the absence of the all subject-object relationships. The avidya is avidya of the subject-object duality, as well the existence of the subject - I am- - and is called akhandaakaara ajnaana vRitti in the deep sleep state as discussed by Vidyaranya in the 11th Chapter of Pancadashi.

 I can recollect this experience after awake, that 1. I slept very well, 2. I did not know anything 3. I was happy, in the deep sleep state. Bri. Up in fact dwell extensively in the 4th Chapter about deep sleep state to the extent that some misinterpret that state as similar to realized state. 

Hari Om!
Sadananda





--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1/13/16, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

,
 
 Seeking आत्म
 अनुभव, to experience the Atma, is an exercise in
 futility, for
 the Atma cannot be an object
 of experience, nor an object of the senses.
 
 That knowledge of Atma is to
 be had from Shastra under the guidance of a
 guru, and until the knowledge is attained, the
 आवरण, which is a lack of
 knowledge
 of the आत्मा is said to be present.
 
 अविद्या, which
 is of the nature of आवरण and विक्षेप,
 is not an object of
 experience either. One
 cannot see or experience अविद्या, but can
 experience
 it's effects, which is this
 दृश्य प्रपंच.
 
 Regards,
 Venkatraghavan
 On 13
 Jan 2016 15:40, "sreenivasa murthy" <narayana145 at yahoo.co.in>
 wrote:
 
 > Dear Sri
 Venkataraghvan,
 >
 >
 You write : "That was what I was trying to say in
 shorthand - but the
 > important thing
 > was to establish that आवरण was
 very much present in the waking state."
 >   You want to establish that
 AvaraNa was very much present in the waking
 > state.What is that *AvaraNa*?How do you
 know that there is *AvaraNa* in
 > your
 waking state? Who has seen it? Or is it a concept which has
 been told
 > in an ancient text ? Has one
 accepted that concept blindly without
 >
 verification in his own *anuBava*?  These doubts crossed my
 mind while I
 > was going through the
 above passage of yours.
 >
 > With warm and respectful regards,
 > Sreenivasa Murthy
 >
 >
 >
 >
 ------------------------------
 > *From:*
 Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
 > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 > *To:* H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 > *Cc:* A discussion group for Advaita
 Vedanta <
 > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 > *Sent:* Wednesday, 13 January 2016 7:21
 PM
 > *Subject:* Re: [Advaita-l] avidya is
 Agantuka
 >
 > Namaste
 Sri Chandramouli ji,
 >
 > I'm somewhat confused. I thought you
 were saying earlier that the
 >
 manifestation of कारण शरीर is limited to
 सुषुप्ति. However, the latest
 > emails indicate that you agree that
 कारण शरीर is manifest in all three
 > अवस्थाs. I agree with this
 btw, but it appears a change to your earlier
 > position (of course, I simply may not have
 understood what you were saying
 >
 earlier).
 >
 > Coming
 back to the topic at hand, we are in agreement that the
 > manifestation of अविद्या
 occurs in all three states. The manifestation is
 > of the nature of association with a body
 शरीर अभिमानं (this you may not
 > agree with, see next paragraph). It is
 this manifestation that is आगन्तुकं.
 > If this is the interpretation of Sri
 Anandagiri AchArya and Sri
 >
 ShankarAchArya, I am in agreement.
 >
 > If शरीर अभिमानं is
 taken to be the meaning of अभिव्यक्तं,
 that implies the
 > inclusion of both
 आवरण रूप अविद्या and
 विक्षेप रूप अविद्या as the
 objects
 > of the adjective
 आगन्तुकी. However, here it may be argued the
 context of
 > the
 बृहदारण्यक मंत्र is
 सुषुप्ति, and hence only आवरण is
 being described as
 >
 आगन्तुकं - as विक्षेप
 isn't present then. I'm ok with that too, but
 would
 > still contend that it is possible
 to explain विक्षेप as आगन्तुक in
 the
 > manner described above, if the
 context isn't सुषुप्ति.
 >
 > The purpose of the
 example about the awareness of "I" in the
 waking/dream
 > states was merely to
 establish the presence of आवरणं in those
 states.
 >
 > The
 example is a diversion from the main topic, but since you
 had some
 > objections to the example, I
 thought I will clarify.
 >
 > The attribution of "I" the
 sAkshi Atma to "I" associated with the sharIra
 > (which is the object of the awareness) is
 indeed विक्षेप, but it requires
 > that साक्षी/आत्म
 अज्ञानं be present for that
 विक्षेप to happen.
 >
 > The mind should not have known that what
 is denoted by the term "I" is the
 > sAkshi the Atma (आवरणं), and
 falsely believes "I" to be the 2 sharIras.
 >
 > The awareness of
 "I" is विक्षेप, I wasn't
 implying that the "I" that the
 > mind is aware of is Atma.
 >
 > That was what I was
 trying to say in shorthand - but the important thing
 > was to establish that आवरण was
 very much present in the waking state. It
 > appears from your latest email that you
 agree with that.
 >
 >
 Regards,
 > Venkatraghavan
 >
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