[Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Iśwara is Māyāvin'
kuntimaddi sadananda
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 11 06:07:38 CST 2016
Chandramouliji - PraNAms.
You are right - Kuutasta which is same is Brahma chaitanya and is the absolute.
Jeeva is discussed as Upahita chatanya where upaadhi starts with antaHkaraNa- Pravesham is enlivening the inert BMI by formation of chidaabhaasa. The aabaasa arguments (responding to avachcheda vaadin as purvapaksha) that he discusses, which he extends to IshaH - or Iswara - which he also discussed in the earlier chapter as reflection in the suddha maayaa - I think it was done in 7th chapter or so. In the 6th chapter too, there was discussion of four types of chaitanya using ghataakaasha, jalaakaasha, meghaakaasha and mahaakaasha. In essence he consistently present Iswara as pratibimba in the samashTi chaitanya. I have listened Swami Paramarthanandaji talks on those slokes and what I presented is its essence, as I understand.
Of course, the absolute truth is Brahman chaitanya which is taken as kuutastha or saakshi chaitanya in relation to that which enlivens the local BMI.
I think the final understanding is true - Brahman is beyond jeeva-jagat-Iswara - which are all products of vyaavahaarika. Which also implies Iswara has to coming from maayaa. The question is whether maayaa comes first or Iswara comes first - either way interdependence becomes a fact. Yes I am aware of Swe. Up. mantra - maayaantu prakRitim vidyaat.. etc and mayaa dhyaksheNa prakRitiH suuyate. And Vevekachudamani says - maayaa as parameswara shakti - shakti cannot exit without a locus. ...
Hence the original question posed is how to reconcile all these statements. - anyonya aasraya also happens with Jeeva too. which Bhagavan Ramauja criticizes extensively in his Shree Bhaashya as seven untenable against avidya of Jeeva in Advaita Vedanta.
With this I will stop.
Hari Om!
Sada
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/11/16, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Iśwara is Māyāvin'
To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 2016, 6:13 AM
Sri Sadananda Ji,
Pranams.
I just referred to Panchadasi Chapter 8 verses
60 to 68
which deal with the subject we are concerned with at
present. My understanding
of these verses in respect of Iswara and
Maayaa is as follows.
The issue is
Kutastha as the SOLE Reality. Not even Iswara. Considering
Iswara as Real is a deception created by
Maayaa. I do not think the verses should be understood as
presenting Iswara as a product of Maayaa. Presenting
Iswara as real is the creation of Maayaa. Only Kutastha is
the SOLE Reality.
As you are undoubdtedly aware there are any
number of
Shruti Vakyas which in the context of Creation present
Iswara as the Creator wielding
the power of Maayaa मायिनन्तु महेश्वरः. Understood in the
abovementioned manner there is
consistency between these verses of Panchadasi and well
known Shruti
vakyas.
Regards
On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at
3:38 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Chandramouliji - PraNAms
I have referenced Panchadashi 8th Chapter -sloka 60 - where
Vidyaranya states his statement is based on shruti -from the
notes I have he refers to NRisimha Uttara Tapaneeya
Upanishad - sloka 9. I have not seen the Upanishad.
To answer your question - yes maaya is inert - the topic of
the chapter is Kuutastha chaitanyam of Saakshi chaitanyam
and how to differentiate it from chidaabaasa. He also
providing arguments supporting the superiority for abhaasa
vaada against avachcheda vaada in this chapter. Yes in the
presence of KuuTasta chaitanya by reflection the vyaShTi
buddhi becomes conscious entity forming jeeva and samashTi
becomes Iswara again by reflection. The formation of
reflection is figuratively called pravasham and also
creation of Jiiva-hood and Iswara-hood. In the samaShTi, all
the rajo and samo gunas fall out leaving pure satva guna of
maaya for reflection - Since satva guna stands for knowledge
- Iswara becomes sarvajnaH. These aspects were also
discussed in the 7th chapter - tRipti deepa prakaraNa -
where Vidhyaranaya provides close to 300 verses commenting
on Bri. Up 4-4-12 mantra - that says one has to inquire into
the aatma or the self - aatmaichet vihaneeyaat aham asmeeti
puurushaH....;etc.
I was just posing the question since maaya and creation are
beginning less cycle, the anyonya aashraya is accounted by
anirvacaneeya khyaati.
Hope this helps.
Hari Om!
Sada
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/11/16, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Iśwara is
Māyāvin'
To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>,
"A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 2016, 4:28 AM
Sri Sadananda Ji,
Pranams.
Reg << Based on
the
authority of Shruti it is clearly established that both
jeeva and Iswara are
products of maayaa
>>,
माया is जडम् (inert). It cannot
produce anything by itself.
So who is the Producer of Iswara?? Can
you please cite some of the Shruti Vakyams on which
your
conclusion is based.
As per my understanding,
with the manifestation of माया Chaitanyam
itself with माया as its उपाधि is
considered as Iswara . There is no
“product” of माया called
Iswara.
Regards
On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at
3:58 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
wrote:
Subbuji – PraNAms
In the 8th Chapter of Panchadashi – kuuTastha deepa
prakaraNa – that we just completed for Advaita
Academy
(yu-tube talks will soon become available) Shree
Vidyaranya
says – sloka 60 – that Iswara like jiiva is
maayikou
(are products of maaya). Maayaavin and maayikou leads
to
anyonya aashraya dosha- error of interdependence.
maayaabhaasena jeeveshou karoteeti shrutatvataH|
maayikaaveva jeeveshou svachchou tou kaarakumbhavat||
Based on the authority of Shruti it is clearly
established
that both jeeva and Iswara are products of maayaa – one
is
reflection in impure maayaa and the other the reflection
on
pure satva guna pradhaana maayaa.
Hari Om!
Sada
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/10/16, V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Subject: [advaitin] 'Iśwara is Māyāvin'
To: science-religion-philosophy at googlegroups.com,
"Advaitin" <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>,
"A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2016, 3:15 AM
A new article on the topic
of 'Iśwara is Māyāvin' is available
here
for
download:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/7w3zk6bk3edp13s/Ishvara_is_M%C4%81y%C4%81vin_F.pdf
v.subrahmanian
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